Any thoughts on these? Anyone ever use them for anything other than plinking in the back yard? I had one that could do some pretty nasty damage to plywood when using ball bearings when I was younger.
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Maryland
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Re: Slingshots
Mon, March 17, 2008 - 10:22 PMOh and while I'm at it, what about other "non-standard" weapons like blow guns and the like. Any others you can think of. Thoughts on them? Practical experience? -
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Re: Slingshots
Tue, March 18, 2008 - 9:35 AMI have killed squirrels with a Wrist Rocket slingshot. I have used an old fashioned ash fork and rubber starp type to hit a tree behind a deer to push it in my direction and get it within bow range. A head shot on a man with one of the new tapered band(they are red in color on the ones I have seen) would put a man down with about a 50/50 chance of being lethal, if lead round balls were used.
As far as blowguns are concerned it takes suprizingly little pratice to get fairly accurate with them. However the peoples of the world that use blowguns to hunt ALL use them with poison. They are ineffective again all but the smallest game without poison. So you'd have to know how to brew up some toxin that while it would be lethal in the blood of the animal would still leave the flesh safe to eat. I would also advise you to apply the poison to the shaft and not the sharp tip of the dart so that if someone was handling the dart and nicked their finger it wouldn't be a deadly mistake.
This is one of the best slingshots available www.3riversarchery.com/product.asp -
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Re: Slingshots
Tue, March 18, 2008 - 10:00 AMI forgot to mention a couple of things. First those that use them in competition and to hunt with seriously call them "hand catapults" Just in case you see a guy with one and he is really good with it you won't offend him by saying, "Nice slingshot!"
Other primitive weapons you might want to look into are atlatls and darts and slings (The type that David used to kill Goliath). Both of these require a good deal of practice to become proficient but they are both very effective midrange weapons. An Andean sling can be used to throw rocks from tennis ball to softball size with enough force to travel over 100 yards. That's 2 - 10 pounds of rock going about 60mph that is some serious KE. -
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Re: Slingshots
Tue, March 18, 2008 - 4:47 PMBlowguns are useless without poison, and too dangerous WITH poison. anything you can get ahold of, or concoct in your garage, is likely to poison the meat of whatever you're hunting.
I've always been a deadly accurate shot with a wrist rocket... But never used ball bearings, usually pebbles, walnuts, whatever I happened to pick up off the ground when I was a kid. I never killed an animal with one, (from what i understand, only ball bearings have enough cross-sectional density as well as small size, to accelerate enough and punch hard enough for a kill) but I used to love knocking cats off of fences with walnuts.
My buddy had this survival knife, with a screw-on slingshot for the bottom of the handle... only instead of a leather thong, it had a chord. you use a special short broadhead arrow with a notch for the rope, cut into the side of the shaft just behind the head, and the shaft extending beyond for about six inches.... you grab it by the fletchings, pull back, be careful you don't slip and spear the hand holding your slingshot, and supposedly it'll fetch a rabbit for you.
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Re: Slingshots
Tue, March 18, 2008 - 5:27 PMthere's this big slingshot that mounts on your forearm, used to sling tennis balls for dogs. that thing looks like it can do some serious damage if loaded with the right thing. I think they had it at the Discovery store. -
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Re: Slingshots
Tue, March 18, 2008 - 6:54 PMI think I would crap my pants laughing, to see someone lob a freight-train ball-bearing out of one of those dog-toy-throwing slingshots and kill a deer. Somebody find a You-Tube link! -
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Re: Slingshots
Tue, March 18, 2008 - 6:54 PMI mean.... for hunting. Not an animal cruelty prank. Don't get me wrong here!
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Re: Slingshots
Wed, March 19, 2008 - 8:56 AMI disagree with Thousand that blowguns are useless. I have successfully killed quail with a blowgun. I keep one in my deer stand and throw maize out under the stand. I got tired of deer hunting and not seeing anything but those damn quail walking around under my feet. I don't use any poison...just darts. -
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Re: Slingshots
Wed, March 19, 2008 - 12:39 PMI will have to concede to Dave's real-world experience. I shot a friend in the arm with a blowgun when i was a teenager (he dared me) and it hardly did anything. I've never hunted with one.
I guess I was thinking more along the lines of larger fowl and rabbits, feral cats, rock squirrels, etc. Little quail and chipmunks and lizard sized critters are, according to Dave's experience, obviously doable. -
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Re: Slingshots
Wed, March 19, 2008 - 2:52 PMI've seen photos of Grey squirrels with taken down by them where the shot's completely through so I imagine that for small game they'd probably be useful with some skill. And unlike a .22 round the dart ought to be recoverable. That was my original thinking anyway. -
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Re: Slingshots
Wed, March 19, 2008 - 7:36 PM.22's are recoverable... Just pick it back up and use it in the slingshot! hehe...
Maybe these blowdarts all you kids are talking about are different than the ones I'm used to seeing.... The ones I'm used to, usually come from the kind of store that sells all those movie-inspired fake swords, along with a million cheap japanese Katanas... The gun is... I dunno like 6mm bore, and the dart is this plastic thing with about three inches of wire sticking out the front, sharpened to a push-pin type of point.... I would imagine even a shot through the heart on a small animal, wouldn't kill it, as the shaft is so small and smooth, First of all it barely makes a hole....second of all, the hole would be perfectly plugged up by the dart shaft itself.
I guess you could pin a chipmunk to the tree he's climbing? then go kill it with a proper weapon and eat it? I dunno.
What kinds of darts are you talking about? -
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Re: Slingshots
Thu, March 20, 2008 - 7:49 AMPrimarily I was refering to .40 cal and .50 cal blowguns. You find these where they sell paintcall guns a lot of the time.
Here's one example.
www.blow-gun.com/storefront/merchant.mvc
There are a number of different dart types you can get for these.
www.blow-gun.com/storefront/merchant.mvc
Here are a couple of examples. (Dead Animal Warning!)
www.youtube.com/watch
(the guy in this one needs to practice a bit more)
www.youtube.com/watch
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Re: Slingshots
Wed, March 19, 2008 - 8:10 PMI've tried shooting stationary seagulls and pigeons with a wrist rocket. I couldn't get the hang of it. I'm sure with practice one could get good but I don't care that much. -
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Re: Slingshots
Wed, March 19, 2008 - 8:21 PMI couldn't tell you how many seagulls I've tagged with my wrist rocket. stationary, or in-flight although in-flight they gotta be within twenty feet for me to have any fair chance. cats too, running or walking it's no contest... within reasonable ranges of 40 feet or less. I don't know of anyone who can do anything with a wrist rocket past 50 feet with any kind of reliable-enough-for-hunting type of accuracy.
I'm really good with a slingshot, but for some reason I suck with a bow. You'd think if you're good at one, you'd be good with the other as they both aim in the same manner. Not true for me. -
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Re: Slingshots
Wed, March 19, 2008 - 8:31 PMHow long does a sling shot last before it loses power from all the stretching? I think I'd like a bow a little better. even though I'm no good with either one. -
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Re: Slingshots
Wed, March 19, 2008 - 9:11 PMThe bands on a slingshot will usually give you a good year or two as long as you store it in a cool place when you're not using it, and don't get chemicals on them.
Bowstrings don't come nearly close to lasting that long.
They both cost about the same to replace; just a couple bucks.
Or, any surgical supply will sell you the rubber tubing for cents on the foot.
I used to buy tapered bands for my wrist rocket, for like five or seven bucks... They start out thick at the posts, tapering down to about half diameter at the thong, but retain the same rubber tube 'wall' thickness all the way. I'm not sure why, but they contract MUCH more linear, less bunching when released, and your projectile will fly quite a bit faster. I can't imagine this is all attributed to aerodynamic stability of the tapered shape, all I know is it really works. -
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Re: Slingshots
Wed, March 19, 2008 - 9:14 PMthen again, if a bow string breaks, you *might* get a cut cheek, but most likely just a good scare.
If a slingshot band breaks, you're going to get a black eye. guaranteed. lol. -
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Re: Slingshots
Wed, March 19, 2008 - 9:19 PMI busted my lip a couple of month's ago when a tarp strap broke. I know that feeling. lol
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Re: Slingshots
Wed, March 19, 2008 - 11:36 PMI had a sling shot when I was a kid. I know for a fact that a ball bearing has more velocity than a rock. But a bow is alot more lethal. However for squirrel's and small game a sling shot might be better. Maybe a club to throw. One way to grab an easy meal, When I was a kid I used to nail bucket's or any other container I could get my hand's on just below the water line to log's in the river. Wait for the turtles to climb up on the log to sun then all you have to do is walk up and they jump off in the bucket's. -
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Re: Slingshots
Thu, March 20, 2008 - 10:13 AMfor some reason, I get more satisfaction from outmarting little animals, than overpowering them. as a kid, I spent WAY more time and had more fun, making elaborate fish traps I could chase the fingerlings up or down the creek and into the traps, making live traps for rodents, and catch frogs in a similar trap to what you described, Brent. What can I say? I'm a tinkerer. It was far more fun than a pellet gun for me.
I think in many survival situations, except when you need to be on the move of course... but if you're staying in one place for at least a day or two, you're better off trapping and snaring with your energy. You might need those bullets for defense or for signaling for help when the time is right. Slingshots and bows, obviously you can't really signal with em unless you wanna tie a whistle to your arrow... But I still think your energy will be more fruitfully spent setting traps, and then tending to your OTHER survival needs while the food catches itself, rather than spending all day hunting a rabbit, and coming back to base with no shelter and no fire and no time to take care of any medical needs. -
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Re: Slingshots
Mon, March 24, 2008 - 3:03 AMMy grandfather was an accompished poacher & used a sling shot to take game birds.
He used lead shot as ammunition & "grew" his catapaults by tying the forked branches of a hazel into position to produce Parallel arms on he "Y" of the catapault.
I have found that the tubular rubbers on modern commercially produced catapaults are too weak to be of much use. Old fashioned square guttapersha rubbers are much better.
Fancy wrist braces seem quite unnecessary.
Despite many hours of practice as a kid I was never able to master the sling - easy to generate massive force but difficult to aim. Anybody out there have any tips-inability to get to grips with the sling has bugged me for years ! -
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Re: Slingshots
Mon, March 24, 2008 - 9:31 AMmilo... as you are a britton, I'm still trying to figure out if 'sling' is the same thing as a slingshot, or if you're referring to the type that is just a leather thong secured with a yard of chord on each end.
I've tried both slingshots and wrist-rockets as a kid (wrist rocket being the kind that has the forearm-brace) and found the wrist rocket to be super easy to manage and really steady. I'm sure as a grown man now, I could handle a normal slingshot just fine without getting a shaky hand... However, I'd still prefer the wrist-rocket, why do things the hard way when a much easier way is right there?
My wrist-rocket is simple, just quarter-inch steel rod bent into the proper shapes. The wrist-support part, folds flat with the 'Y' when not in use, and the whole thing fits in a back pocket just as easily as a normal, simple 'Y'. I've had it since I was 8 years old, and I'm sure it will outlast most other tools, weapons, and camping implements that I own today. -
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Re: Slingshots
Tue, March 25, 2008 - 2:45 AMTransatlantic English again !
By a sling I meant the David & Goliath thing. Either these take a lot of practice in general or I just have no talent for them. I find this frustrating as I am pretty good with other instictively aimed weapons like a bow & a slingshot.
I have also had my catapault since childhood -a flat aluminium "Milbro" brand. I'm sure it will see me out & maybe even become an heirloom of sorts.
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Re: Slingshots
Tue, March 25, 2008 - 9:51 AMhehe... the david and goliath slings are nowhere near 'instinctive aim'
There are generally two schools of 'slinging' style... the 'twirl it over your head for a while and let it go' method, and then the underhand 'swing it back once, then on the forward-stroke, give it all you got and let it rip!'
The overhead method is more for shepherds with a lot of time on their hands. You can build up a whole lot of force that way, and gain super power and distance, but accuracy only comes with about 14 years of practice, 8 hours a day.
The underhand method has been used more in military applications. It's a fair compromise between 'maximum power' vs. mediochre accuracy. It was a volley weapon. there have been 'sling bullets' found, made from swaged lead or carved stone, usually almond-or football shape (I guess that would be a rugby ball on your side of the pond) and they've been found lodged in skulls at archeological dig sites. They say those sling bullets could be lethal to a human out to about 175 yards. But remember, the tactic was to sling several hundred bullets toward a tightly-clustered formation of pikemen that usually occupied the breadth and length of the next hill over.
I think if it were easy or reliable for one person to use a sling as self defense against one other person, the David and Goliath story wouldn't be remarkable enough to survive so many millenia of history. -
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Re: Slingshots
Tue, March 25, 2008 - 3:20 PMCold Steel makes a Big Bore Blowgun that is a .625 calibre.
www.coldsteel.com/blowguns.html
They are much superior to most others. check out the website and I think there is even some video on them. -
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Re: Slingshots
Tue, March 25, 2008 - 3:58 PMI have to agree with Curtiss. The wrist rockets are great for small game, I have taken rabbit with them before. You need to hit the rabbit in the head or they'll run away bruised.
Blowguns need poison--neurotoxic poison (natives use poison from the poison dart frog--the most poisonous critter on the planet.) They are fun to play with, but not my first choice.
And rock slingers (like David used) can be a weapon of war in a skilled hand. We once rained rocks on some asshole's house from a quarter mile away--like an artillery unit! Rock slingers can hurl a good sized rock!
Another idea to consider is air guns. I'm not talking about your kid's Daisy. There are air guns on the market that will take African game. We're talking 600 caliber, 500 grain bullets that will take deer, elk, antelope, etc. One of the writers in shotgun news writes about them a lot. Pretty amazing stuff. -
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Re: Slingshots
Tue, March 25, 2008 - 6:00 PMBig Bore airguns are called pneumatic rifles and are usually as expensive as custom benchrest rifles. Then again it might be worth the investment to shoot a large bore projectile with less noise than a .22 LR?
I was reading in a magazine recently(I think it was Richie's Magazine the Backwoodsman www.backwoodsmanmag.com) wherein the author had killed an American Bison with one shot from a custom .475 calibre multi shot air rifle.
I highly recommend that magazine by the way.
I used lead round balls for .36 and .44 calibre blackpowder revovlers for my hunting slingshot ammo. hit a squirrel in the head and it just shuts his lights off permenantly. They put enough of a hurt on a person to take the fight out of them with a body shot. -
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Re: Slingshots
Tue, March 25, 2008 - 7:22 PMLewis and Clark had a pneumatic rifle they relied on heavily for game-getting and for showing off to the local indians. If you keep em well oiled and if they have an onboard pump, they're an ideal homesteadder's hunting tool. All you need is some lead and a mold, no powder or shells to worry about.
Also on the plus side, they're not legally considered firearms. No FFL jibberjabber, even silencers are permissible sans-tax stamp, as it is not a silencer for a 'firearm'... So yeah, they can be MUCH quieter than a .22 rifle.
The main drawback is bulk and weight.... some of those suckers are like lugging around a thicker-than-Garand stock with a small scuba tank and a super thick barrel on top. The other drawback is the time (and extra equipment like high-pressure pumps or air tanks) it takes to charge them with air, although many of the nicer models can store enough pressure to get two, three, or even four shots out between recharges. -
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Re: Slingshots
Wed, March 26, 2008 - 4:47 AMUnfortunately here in the UK high velocity airguns are lagally classed as firearms.
Howeve, silencers are perfectly legal & are so common as be practicaly compulsory : )
I recall my father telling me about powerful airguns used for poaching between the world wars. These were disguised as walking sticks, were single shot & were pumped up by a seperate hand pump. They were apparantly dangerously prone to exploding if over pressurised. I have never seen one of these but have seen a couple of 19th century walking stick guns, one of which was a cap & ball & he other took some kind of rook rifle cartridge.
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Re: Slingshots
Wed, March 26, 2008 - 11:27 AMAny device that can be installed on a firearm and will reduce the report by even one decibel is considered a "silencer" by the BATFE. It doesn't matter if it was made for an airgun or a paintball gun; if an ATF agent can take it off your pellet gun and somehow stick it on the end of anything in the BATFE armoury (even if he has to duct tape it on, and even if he destroys it in the process), it is a "silencer" and, therefore, subject to regulation.
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Re: Slingshots
Wed, March 26, 2008 - 6:17 PMSilencers, or sound suppressors as they are called here (TX) are sold at the gun show...you can take in your pistol and they will fix the barrel up and everything.. I also thought they were illegal until I asked the guy...I guess here they aren't. -
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Re: Slingshots
Wed, March 26, 2008 - 11:32 PMI didn't say they were illegal; I said they are subject to regulation. They're perfectly legal if you submit your paperwork, pay $200, and get a tax stamp, just like with any other N.F.A. device. The BATFE ruled on the specific issue of a silencer attached permanently to paintball guns, but this ruling applies only to paintball guns; it does not extend to just any sort of pneumatic gun: www.atf.treas.gov/alcohol/i...2005-4.pdf
Robert Beeman has this page devoted to the subject: www.beemans.net/silencers_on_airguns.htm
I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I don't know what Texas state law is, but state law isn't the problem; it's federal law. Be wary who you ask for legal advice, especially when it comes to the BATFE. Before you go and buy a silencer from some guy at a gunshow who does not have a regular job as a criminal defence lawyer, call up your local BATFE branch office, tell them exactly what you want to buy, and ask them if it's legal. Then tell them about the guy who was going to sell you one and his table number at the gunshow. I'll bet you a dollar he won't be at the next show. -
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Re: Slingshots
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 9:45 AMThat's so strange to me... I thought the keyword for defining a silencer was 'attached to a firearm'... and since paintball guns, and pneumatic guns, aren't firearms, I don't see how the law can apply.
I mean, if they want to expand the legal definitions of silencers to 'anything which could or can possibly be retrofitted to a firearm to suppress sound but was not origninally intended for a firearm' (as per paintball and air gun silencers) then why wouldn't they also regulate the sale of: Pillows, Potatoes, Empty soda pop bottles, and all lenths and diameters of PVC pipe. ALL of which can be easily retrofitted to a gun, to silence the report by a measurable number of decibels.
I'm not saying you're wrong, Mick, because you're probably right. I'm just saying it's rediculous that the BATF is claiming the right to regulate non-firearm related silencers. I guess you can't even cover your mouth to cough without paying a tax stamp on those sound-suppressing hands of yours... -
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Re: Slingshots
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 1:10 PMBelieve me, I wish things were different more than anybody. If it was up to me, we could, any one of us who wasn't crazy (Lock it up, Kaya! I'm eccentric. There's a difference.) or a convicted felon, could just go down to Joe-Bob's hardware and pick up a machinegun and/or silencer any ol' time; or glue pipes and fender washers together in the tool shed whenever we damn-well pleased. Apparently, the dictionaries in D.C. have a different definition of "infringed".
Believe it or not, BATFE is not really the problem. The problem is the N.F.A. That is the legislation that defines a silencer as a seperate "firearm", bringing it within the purview of the BATFE. Despite issuing "rulings", BATFE doesn't really make the rules; it merely interprets the law, and enforces those interpretations.
Intent has much to do with how the BATFE views things. If you have a pillow in your bedroom, a handgun in your gun safe, and a roll of duct tape in the garage, there is no apparent "intent". However, if you have all of those things together in the same room and say, "Hey, I wonder if I tape that pillow over my Colt Python, will it muffle the sound?", you have "intent" and, by bringing those items together, you have "made" an unregistered silencer.
Almost every had some kind of pipe in the garage or the shed. If you pipe in your house and a book on homemade silencers, the BATFE can view that as having "made" a silencer, if it so chooses. It sucks, but that's what the American people get for believing in representative government, but I digress...
I'm not trying to tell anybody what to do regarding silencers or anything firearms-related. I just don't want to see anybody else end up in prison and the gummint confiscating all their property because said somebody thought they were completely within the law when they taped a widget onto their doohickey. Hypothetically speaking: if a person wanted to make a widget that might interest the BATFE, said person should make it all by him/herself, test it all by him/herself, then destroy it all by him/herself, or stash it someplace off his/her property where nobody else will ever find it, but only after wiping all of his/her fingerprints off of every single part. Then, still speaking hypothetically, this person should never, ever discuss the making of that widget publicly.
I wish Alaska would hurry the hell up and secede already. Or Montana. At this point, I really don't care which.
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Re: Slingshots
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 2:23 PMhmm..yeah that sounds about right...fucking federales. They should leave it to the states to decide. If you want to sit in your living room and huff paint (or smoke a joint) you should be able to do so..hell kill yourself as far as I'm concerned..whatever makes you happy...so long as you aren't interfering with my right to live free and be safe.
If your wife doesn't like you sniping squirrels from the bedroom while she is trying to sleep and you decide to buy a silencer I don't think that should be a problem. The Wright brothers would have never got that plane off the ground if they had all of todays rules and regulations. What a bunch of BS our federal system has become.
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Re: Slingshots
Mon, April 28, 2008 - 11:16 PMOn my recurves and longbows bowstrings last a long time many tears if properly cared for.
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Re: Slingshots
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 2:33 PMWow this really went around the block and down the road from the originall questions about slingshot and blowguns. LOL Too Cool!
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Re: Slingshots
Mon, April 28, 2008 - 11:18 AMI would include looking at the Bolo, Spear, Atlatl, Shot sling, Rabbit stick, Boomerang, Bow, -
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Re: Slingshots
Mon, April 28, 2008 - 8:10 PMI'm a believer in the wrist rocket and the atlatl (tho the atlatl is functionally a group weapon). Remember those bad-ass dart guns they used in the Road Warrior? I don't suppose they'd have much practical use, but I'd dig having a compressed air-powered dart pistol. I wonder if you could design a usable spring-powered gun. I like low-tech, cuz it's fixable and functional.
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