What are the best ones?
What kind of wattage does a house need to produce/bank in the batteries?
What's it like, living on your own solar power? Do you have to ground the kids every time they leave the bathroom light on as you frantically run downstairs to check the ammeter on the battery banks? Or can you set it up to live pretty much like the average power consumer?
Inquiring minds want to know!
What kind of wattage does a house need to produce/bank in the batteries?
What's it like, living on your own solar power? Do you have to ground the kids every time they leave the bathroom light on as you frantically run downstairs to check the ammeter on the battery banks? Or can you set it up to live pretty much like the average power consumer?
Inquiring minds want to know!
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Re: Solar energy systems
Fri, April 18, 2008 - 10:20 PMI have built my place from scratch to stand alone in the event of any kind of emergency. Here in Missouri we have at least one ice storm a year that takes out the power lines for a week to ten days. We tried the Aladdin lamps, kerosene has gotten really expensive, plus they don't put out the light that the company advertizes. Next we tried propane lights they put out plenty of light, but propane has gotten expensive also.
As far as wiring 12 volt light fixtures they wire up pretty much the same way as 120 lights do. But do remember that 12 VDC lights are polarity sensitive. I have not been able to find a normal light switch that is rated for DC voltage, so I am using toggle swithches that come from Backwoods Solar. Ihave two 12VDC cieling fans that run constantly. These can be had from Backwoods Solar or Real Goods Trading. 12VDC light bulbs can be had from the same companys. They are more expensive than the 120 volt models.
You will also need a 12VDC rated circuit breaker Box. Simple 6 circuit box works fine.
My system is the most basic of all solars systems. I am running 6 Trojan T-105 6 volt 225 amp hour batterys wired series/parallel to give me 12 volts and 675 amp hours or 8100 watts. I have 8 15 watt Sunforce solar panels wire thru a 30 amp charge controller. I also have a Iota 55 amp battery charger connected to the grid. When the grid is unavailable I have a homemade gas driven battery charger.
In the summer time I am totally solar for my lighting and cieling fans, no back up charging is needed from the grid. in the winter time I have to top off the batterys about every two weeks. Once a month I check my battery water and make sure all battery connections are clean. I check the battery level indicator on the charge controller daily when I do my morning chores. Charge controllers today are pretty much automatic. Set them up at installation and leave them alone.
In the house, living with solar powered lights is the same as grid power, flip the switch and the light comes on. I can run for 7-10 days with no charging whatsoever, but you always get some charging out of the panels even on overcast days.
Be advised that here in Missouri we have no building codes or electric codes. So what I have put together may not pass code where your at. I have grid power too, I like my A/C in the summertime. I eventually hope to build my system big enough to convert my freezers and refidgerators to 12VDC.
When the grid went down last winter we didn't know it. Also, my electric bill hasn't been over 50 bucks in the last year and a half. I plan to add a wind generator and more solar panels as time and money allows. I am hoping with the wind generator that I will become energy independant year round, except for my A/C.
You can build as big a system as your wallet allows, this one is working for me and what I want for right now
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Re: Solar energy systems
Sat, April 19, 2008 - 5:55 AMIf you had 2 set up's like you have now and dedicated 1 set up to a freezer only, would it keep enough juice to power the freezer? Could you just wire up some kind of power inverter to the freezer? If you don't mind me asking, what did the solar panel's cost? I'm ignorant when it comes to electricity and 12 volt conversion and solar panel's.
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Re: Solar energy systems
Sat, April 19, 2008 - 6:06 AMOn the countryside & small stock journal's website under past issue they have an article call piecing together a spanking new $600 solar electric system, the article can be read on line or printed out, it's written be I think Ed Ewing. It was an excellent article. -
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Re: Solar energy systems
Sat, April 19, 2008 - 8:02 AMSunDanzer makes some chest type 12Vdc freezer that will run off of a single 175 watt solar panel. I don't think you can build a solar system today for 600 bucks. The price of solar panels has really shot up since global warming has hit. Japan is buying just about everything on the market. California and Colorado has instituted really attractive tax incentives to convert to solar. And net metering is the law. That means the electric company is required to buy your excess power.
You could wire a system that would power your present freezer with solar panels a couple of batterys and an inverter. Your present freezer consumes about 350 watts, 7 to 9 hours per day for a total of 3150 watts per day. Now divide that by 5 hours total charge time and you would need aprox. 650 watts of solar panels. About 5 /130 watt panels@ a cost of about $3500.
The SunDanzer 8 cu.ft. freezer consumes about 440 watts per day. It costs about 975 dollars. would only need 1 130 watt panel @ $730 to power it. Total cost about 1705 bucks.
There is an addage in the solar power industry about 1 dollar spent on effiecncy will save you 100 dollars on your solar array.
I chose to start small and work my way up as finances allowed. At present I run no refridgeration off of solar, but that is my goal.
To give you an idea of how fast prices are going up in the solar industry, today an Air-X 400 wind turbine is selling for $725, a year or so ago that same turbine was selling for $400.
I believe small homeowner based solar systems are the answer to this countrys energy problems, not mega produced energy.
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Re: Solar energy systems
Sat, April 19, 2008 - 8:36 AMSo is your house all LED's or those fancy halogen coil bulbs? I would imagine it might behove a person to switch over to only the most high-end, low poer consumption EVERYTHING... from ceiling fans to computers... Is that considered a huge investment aside from the solar array?
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Re: Solar energy systems
Sat, April 19, 2008 - 9:31 AMIn answer to your question about costs. Costco is selling 4 15 watt solar panels, mounting system, 7 amp charge controller, and a 175 watt inverter for 349.99, that includes shipping. I have two of these at the moment but with a different charge control.
Meets my needs for lighting and air circulation right now. -
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Re: Solar energy systems
Sat, April 19, 2008 - 9:40 AMLED lighting are definitely the future, but I don't think the technology has quite arrived as yet. But it is getting better daily.
I use a laptop with a car charger, we are wireless for our phones and internet connection also. So, I have a bank of 12vdc sockets installed to charge our cell phones and power the laptop. and my repeater/amplifier for the cell phones and computer modem is 12 volt. -
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Re: Solar energy systems
Sat, April 19, 2008 - 7:43 PMHow vulnerable are solar panels to, say, hail? do they get old and opaque like other plastics with age? are they big and ugly and take up your whole roof and half the lawn, or are they fairly compact? How many licks does it take to get to the tootsie-roll center of a tootsie pop? -
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Re: Solar energy systems
Sat, April 19, 2008 - 9:14 PMIn answer to your question about lights I use 12vdc compact fluorescent, when LED gets a little better I will switch to them.
The industry standard is 2" at 50 mph. We have withstood several hailstorms with no damage. They are gaurenteed fot 25 years. I haven't seen any dulling yet. -
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Re: Solar energy systems
Sun, April 20, 2008 - 6:13 AMIf your home was oriented in the right direction you could mount all your solar panels on your roof and never know they were there.
Mine are mounted on top of my woodshed so they are up and out of the way. I really don't notice them anymore. But, I think they look kind of cool out there quietly sitting atop the shed generating electricity.
A simple system could be built for about $610 One of the systems from Costco and two 6 volt batterys. That would keep a couple of lights going, your laptop charged, and your cellphones charged. You could save about $100 dollars using 115 amp hour deep cycle marine batterys from wal-mart. They just won't last as long. but would work just fine in an emergency.
One word of caution about battery chargers, I raped a $600 battery bank using a cheapo battery charger from wal-mart, if you are going to use one buy a good one designed for solar systems. They cost a bit more but they don't F**K up your batterys. -
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Re: Solar energy systems
Sun, April 20, 2008 - 9:22 AMSo... if I understand, photovoltaics generate juice through an electron reaction... I used to know the compounds they are made of, and I could look it up again if I wasn't so lazy...but basically, sunlight hits the molecules of this compound and knocks a few electrons loose, which migrate to collection wires routed throughout the panel... Doesn't that mean that eventually the PV compound would run out of free electrons and become stable, 'dead'?
Or maybe that's what the 25 year warranty is about...
Does that mean you get better output from your newer panels than your older ones? Or does it make a difference if a person were to come across some older panels for a lower price? -
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Re: Solar energy systems
Sun, April 20, 2008 - 10:42 AMI think what happens is the sun agitates the silicon and a small current generated.
As far as I know is the 36 cell silicon cell panels do not derate, the newer amorphous film panels will actually spike ubove rated power then settle in at their rated power for the life of the panel. I have read some research that states silicon panels should last a life time, and other research that states about 30 years and their done. Keep this thread going for thirty years and I will give you a first hand report.
There is a new technology coming up called CIGS from Honda and a company called Nanosolar in Silicon Valley, that if what they are claiming is true coal generation is history. I read a short blurb on Hondas Solar web sight stating they have already produced a Hydrogen fuel station using the CIGS technology in Japan. There was an article in the news earlier this week about Nanosolar and Cigs, they already have a factory up and running and will produce their panels for about one dollar a watt. At that price, coal, natural gas, and nuclear power are not competitive.
I am willing to wager that big oil and the utility industry will find some way to step on the technlogy. Kind of like that 400 mile per gallon carbuerator that never got marketed. -
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Re: Solar energy systems
Sun, April 20, 2008 - 12:57 PMWell, I tell you what. If 'Big Oil' steps on it, at least you know that 'peak oil' truly is a bunch of bollocks. 'Big Oil' has more interest in monitoring the levels in their tanks than anyone else in the world...if they start hearing the straw making those slurping sounds at the bottom, you can bet they would quickly start agressively investing and becoming 'Big Solar' instead.
Those dollar-per-watt-panels...is that how much it costs for each watt of energy? sounds impossibly high to me. Or is it more like a 100-watt panel would cost 100 bucks? which sounds impossibly low to me. I'm very confused.
How much should a person expect to spend today in dollars per watts? (in the sense of 'how much does a hundred watt panel cost') -
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Re: Solar energy systems
Sun, April 20, 2008 - 2:03 PMA silicon crystal 200 watt panel is selling for $1295.00, a 135 watt is selling for $799.00(workhorse of the industry), and a 15 watt amorphous film panel sells for about $79.00.
Big Oil is already in the solar industry. Shell and ARCO are two of the largest panel manufactuerers.
CIGS means Copper Indium Gallium Diselenide, just found that little bit. Don't know too much about these panels, from what tiny bit I know this is going to revolutionize solar power. That company, Nanosolar, has figured out a process to make them on machines like a newspaper printing press.
Real Goods Trading gives a figure of $12.00 per watt installed. Or a 1000 watt system would cost you $12,000.00. You can beat that cost if you do the work yourself. You sound like you know something about electricity. Its mostly "dot to dot"
Plus you can do like I am doing start small and wean yourself off the power company.
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Re: Solar energy systems
Sun, April 20, 2008 - 2:09 PMIs big solar going to be as evil as big oil? lol -
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Re: Solar energy systems
Sun, April 20, 2008 - 2:25 PMOut here in middle america the electric co-op is against home brewed electricity. If you think about it the co-op is one of the biggest employers in the county, if everyone starts making their own electricity there is going to be a bunch of high paid people out of work.
When I went over to the co-op to see about selling my excess power back to them, they looked like I shot their dog. My next addition is going to be a wind generator, thay make alot of power, more than I will need to keep my batterys charged. I want to sell my excess back to the co-op. They bitched and whined, finally come up with I would need to carry $100,000 in liability insurance. I walked out and said screw it, I will install a heat sink and heat my stock tanks with it. -
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Re: Solar energy systems
Sun, April 20, 2008 - 6:36 PMYears ago I read an article about a men (engineer ) who designed his own power generator based on water from a stream on his property . He generated all of his power and had "disconnected " from the power grid . He received a bill from the electric company and went to them and expressed his displeasure at this as he had not even been tied to their lines . They came up with a " per kilowatt " stand by charge for being there if needed . He requested that they remove all of their poles and wire from his property . He had to take them to court to force removal . -
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Re: Solar energy systems
Sun, April 20, 2008 - 6:57 PMThey charge me 19.00 a month for service availability, most months that is more than the electric I consumed.
Even though My neighbor and I paid for the poles and wire on our property we don't own them -
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Re: Solar energy systems
Sun, April 20, 2008 - 8:37 PMI'd sell their wire to the scrap yard and use the poles to build corner post for my fence. -
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Re: Solar energy systems
Mon, April 21, 2008 - 8:22 PMYes I do know a thing or to about electricity... very fortunate for me. By trade I'm an electronics technician, although I work in security systems, the same basic rules apply on any scale with any circuit. I would love to set up a system of my own. -
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Re: Solar energy systems
Tue, April 22, 2008 - 9:32 AMSolar electricity is basic electrical circuits so you should have no problem with it.
Some books of intrest: The Complete idiots Guide to Solar Power
Photovoltaics: Design and Installation Manual
The first book gives you a basic understanding of the different types of systems their capabilities and limitations. The second one is a down and dirty installation guide. Right down to sizing fuzes and wire gauges.
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Re: Solar energy systems
Mon, April 21, 2008 - 4:31 AMHere's is that link if anyone is interested, it's low wattage but, I like that you buy all components yourself and put it together yourself.
www.countrysidemag.com/issues...ng.html
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