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Do you think the gov keeps lists of people ? What do you do, or not do to stay off these lists? Is being in this tribe a risk?
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Re: Government list
Sun, September 6, 2009 - 1:39 PMYes, the government does. Yes, being on this tribe will put you on a list. If you do certain internet searches, visit certain sites, order certain things, use certain key words, you will be on a list and probably have a file. Same goes for the telephone. -
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Re: Government list
Sun, September 6, 2009 - 3:26 PMOh what a bunch of horse crap. Pun intended.
The government does NOT keep a list of people who are on this tribe. Nor does the government keep a list of people who do certain internet searches, visit certain sites, etc, etc, etc. The government is reactive when it comes to things like that - if you use certain key words in emails or on telephone calls you may get flagged for analysis, but 99% of all such stuff is automated and not stored. The sheer amount of data Horse's uneducated claim suggests is untenable. -
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Re: Government list
Sun, September 6, 2009 - 4:32 PMI agree with Mr underscore dot
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Re: Government list
Mon, September 7, 2009 - 7:24 AMYep, I have to also agree with Mr Regan Photo.
You would only be flagged for being on this tribe, IF this tribe is on government list already. Certain sites are flagged, but this tribe at this point.....doubtful.
There are acts being considered by the government that would force ISP carriers to keep records that the government could use in it's investigations. That right there should tell you that if the government is trying to get someone to do it for them, then they are limited in what they are keeping....again at this point.
The act that i'm speaking of is one that is worded and named with regards to adults being child predators.
Even in the patriot act it has to be "relevant to an ongoing criminal investigation." Also, in order to use the Carnivore system(different from the before mentioned act), warrants and court orders must be issued naming the target. You "could" be swept up in a search of a target, but that's going to be kinda rare.
I think this way of thinking that the government is out there tracking every person is a bit over the top. There are millions of people using the internet. To get yourself permanently on a list and a file made would take visiting sites the government deems a national threat. I don't think this site is there yet.....we're still too busy bickering with each other, rather than organizing against the government.
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Re: Government list
Mon, September 7, 2009 - 7:22 AMYea right - if the government doesn't keep track of people then why is it so many Americans received an unsolicited e-mail from a government offical. I got news for you, when you subscribe to certain magazines, visit certain websites, subscribe to certain blog pages, visit government websites, use "key words" in e-mails, get on certain mailing lists online - you ARE on one of many government lists. Hell, we have a government watch dog right here in Montgomery, Alabama called the Southern Poverty Law Center. They alone keep track of every militia organization, the KKK (what's left of it), any radical organization that they consider dangerous. The key words there is "that THEY consider dangerous". They have a file room in the basement of their building a city block square and a computer system that MIT would admire. If you think that Big Brother is not watching you, listening to you, reading your words then you are walking around life with blinders on. You got to remember who created the Internet and then released it to the general public and the world. -
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Re: Government list
Mon, September 7, 2009 - 7:25 AMOh yea - I'll have to find it - but since Obama came to office when you visit government websites your computer gets a tracking cookie placed in it that will not be removed without doing a total re-install of your computer. That has been on the news and on many different websites. Like I said, I'll have to look again and locate the links to the story.
Homeland Security is going too far with what they do!!! -
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Re: Government list
Mon, September 7, 2009 - 10:00 AM...will not be removed using *regular system maintenance*. You might want to take a look at www.maxa-tools.com/cookie.php
:-) -
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Re: Government list
Mon, September 7, 2009 - 10:46 AMReagan is right, I've spoken with guys in a division of the airforce who'se job it is to monitor radio transmissions (cell phones, wireless internet, etc) for those key words and phrases. They fly high altitude out of Hill air force base up north of SLC and can monitor most of the continental U.S. and there are other divisions elsewhere. At any given moment, about 10 million americans are being passively monitored (i.e. automated monitoring, scanning for key triggers) and about 3 million americans are on the 'active monitor' list, where they are more closely scrutinized. Obviously the number of actively monitored people at any given moment is smaller than the number on the list. They're not online all the time.
If you're on the active list, you will most likely be dropped off the list eventually, takes about 3-9 months depending on whether you raise any more flags in the meantime. They're not going to plan a raid on your home over it unless they see some legit reason for concern, and it would have to be pretty high profile these days. The internet is cluttered with grumblings about anti-government sentiment. You pretty much have to be collaborating with terrorists or plotting to assasinate some government high-ups.
I wouldn't be surprised if a file is generated and kept for anyone who makes the 'active' list... but there are so many layers of beaurocracy between this division of the air force and your local swat team, I really wouldn't be overly concerned about it unless you really are a bad guy.
The army has a similar division which monitores hardline communications, or so I was told by the airforce guys. -
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Re: Government list
Mon, September 7, 2009 - 11:01 AMI once had a wise man tell me I shouldn't worry about getting on a list , he said that there was only one list and that everybody's name was on it. live well
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Re: Government list
Mon, September 7, 2009 - 11:41 PM<so many Americans received an unsolicited e-mail from a government offical>
Uh, the same reason people get spam? getting unsolicited email is not = to the government keeping 'lists' - yes, the government has a list of people, phone numbers, addresses, etc. You have a social security number, that's a list. That's NOT what we're talking about.
The SPLC is not a government watchdog. You not only used the term incorrectly (a government watchdog is not keeping an eye out on dangerous groups FOR the government, genius, a government watchdog is a group that watches the government) but you're wrong either way.
Also, "the government" didnt really create the internet - ARPANET was a USG sponsored project, but the internet as we know it today was developed by private industry.
You have obviously never worked for the federal government, or held a security clearance. -
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Re: Government list
Tue, September 8, 2009 - 6:32 AMI read in a news paper some where that Joe blow Aussies are 3 times more under surveillance than the united sates, whether it's true or not I don't know. I think it comes down to population size and the size of the country you live in.
Britain is small and has 60 million people, I think there surveillanced more, just from the crap on TV. Australia being such a large continent makes it a little harder. Americas population is what 300 or 400 million and a fairly large continent, which should theoretically make it harder. Australias wee population of 22 million, we're resource rich, and the one of the most taxed countries in the world, with 3 tiers of government, and have politicians with awesome super fund pensions, the bastards. As they say you pay peanuts and you get monkeys, the saying doesn't make you feel any better when you see the perks.
I've never had any unsolicited e-mails from the government, why would they waste resources apart from an election, and sneaky advertising. My virus detector found a cookie from a porn website that was government based, or funded, as its a rigged free site to catch the pedophiles, and I hope they get the bastards too.
Really who cares as long as your not buying anything deemed illegal from over seas, or buying anything from any where to do anything stupid, you have nothing to fear. I'd be more worried about criminals, than any thing else.
You tell 'em Mr Reagan, and I thought I was a Paranoid fucker. -
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Re: Government list
Tue, September 8, 2009 - 6:23 PMIt's the principle, Craig. Americans are (well, used to be) all about principles. We've got more freedom here than any other group of people in the world, and we won't keep it that way by standing aside and allowing little mirco-encroachments and 'not worth bothering over' infractions chip away at our liberties and freedom.
The number of people who don't care, who would rather allow than put up a fight, is steadily increasing and the number of staunch, stubborn constitutionalists is declining. Maybe eventually we'll be a pushover population of victims-of-the-state like Australia lol. Hopefully not on my watch though.
Things like public security cameras, civillian communications scanning, these 'lists' in the topic, and the future I.D. implant chips all go against the principles of freedom and privacy. We don't fear a current leader putting these government powers into place, we fear a future leader's ability to abuse these powers, once the road is paved for them in all directions, a foot at a time. Somebody's gotta keep the government in check. -
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Re: Government list
Wed, September 9, 2009 - 6:04 AMI think they been chipping away at our liberties in Aus a long time mate, apparently making it safer for the herd. The pommies(english) at one stage in history here worried about another America occurring. I guess the poms succeeded here, you still swear the oath of loyalty to the Queen, on enlistment , and in politics they're still mumbling about a republic one day.
I don't think people in Aus realise yet how many liberties they lost, some of the legislation passed in the past 8 years, has definitely paved the way. That's why I hesitate to get my gun license, I'd be another blip on a coppers screen, and randomly weapon inspected twice a year. It's just the principle of the matter. Unfortunately we had the Port Arthur massacre, and a politically motivated John Howard took away our guns. The old man was not impressed and he's a liberal.
Majority of people vote, cause you get fined if you don't. Then we all pay our taxes, keep going to work and do it all over again. I love the fact I've walked away from most of that crap. The further away the better. Now if I had 50 or 60% of the population with me, who knows what would happen.
People are starting to wake up though, mums and dads, coming to terms that they have no time for their kids as they both work to pay the mortgage off. The standard of living has apparently risen, although when you compare prices from now, then back to the eighties, everything just costs a shit tin(High inflation) more.
In 2007 the liberal gov tried to abuse there new powers, and stuffed it up big time, it was the Dr Harneef terrorism case, motivated for a political scare campaign. All of Australia witnessed it, it also helped along a change of government, yet those laws that go against our liberties are still there.
I just feel your damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Anyway bring on RAGNOROK -
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Re: Government list
Wed, September 9, 2009 - 10:27 AMI hope I am on a list ha ha ha , they can come watch me herd my ducks down to lake. Sorry to hear you been losing liberties Craig. Join the crowd. I would just once like to see our Government here in the United States pass one law that expanded our liberties. For now I guess maybe we should just ask them to take more vacations. In many cases less is better in the sense of maybe if they did less we would lose less.
I mean why do they always think they need to be passing (new laws) ? Maybe because we are always blaming them for our ills? We cry , they try to fix they do too much we cry some more.
Sorry I had to skip out like I did everyone. There was real concern HERE ABOUT A HACKER OR SOMEONE who had the capibility to track isps . I got it sorted out and got some real cool anti spyware that lets me monitor those who are monitoring me. dontcha just love these games?
Hi Salil, How is the military life? Sorry to bug out like I did but there were issues, (computer related to spyware ) I had to kill my entire existence on tribes to find it. I just got a new computer and its bad to the bone. Its like running a fully blown hemi on the street. Twin processors and more ram then Ill ever need. Michael
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Re: Government list
Wed, September 9, 2009 - 10:42 AM<The SPLC is not a government watchdog. You not only used the term incorrectly>
Now where did I say it was a government watchdog. The SPLC is a private organization that does keep track of many organizations and people they determine to be a threat. Before you go and blast me for what you say I wrote go back and read my statement again. -
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Re: Government list
Wed, September 9, 2009 - 10:43 AMNever mind - this topic isn't worth even responding back to any more. I'll correct myself and take back what I just said about the SPLC being a fucking gov't watch dog. It doesn't matter - BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU! -
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Re: Government list
Wed, September 9, 2009 - 11:03 PMOne should not worry about that which they cannot control ! -
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Re: Government list
Thu, September 10, 2009 - 11:23 AMW.O. -cannot control? that's the kind of victim mentality that will lose our republic if left to whimp attitudes like yours. People can hold the line, and have held the line many times throughout generations of the political battle of power vs. freedom. Who are you to take the heritage of a democracy and just throw your hands up and bury your head up your ass while the freedoms you enjoyed will not be passed on to your children's children.
Don't be a fag. Worry about it, because you CAN control it. -
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Re: Government list
Sun, September 13, 2009 - 7:36 AMGo ahead worry over things you cannot control/change . I will relax and deal with what I can influence /change .
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Re: Government list
Thu, September 10, 2009 - 9:09 AMTimberwolf gets schooled and he whimpers off, taking his ball and going home
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Re: Government list
Fri, September 11, 2009 - 10:47 PMYou guys crack me up. No, no, the government doesn't keep lists...and then you go on and talk about how Big Brother scans our emails. What is a list but a database? Does a list have to be engraved in steel and signed by Hitler himself to be a list? Nein, nein, nein! No, no, no there are no lists. Have you ever heard of lawful intercept software? It's what governments use to scan email and the web. What do they ultimately do with the information they glean? Create lists, maybe? What else would they do with it? Smoke it? Hit delete? Sure, maybe the lists change and morph constantly, as all databases do. I know someone who wrote a lawful intercept program that is used by more than one national government. This person has told me directly not to go to websites or do internet searches that involve politically subversive material (you can read into what defines politically subversive material as much as you want). Don't you think our government security agencies would put survivalist chat groups under surveillance? Are survivalist chat groups not, by definition, a meeting/breeding ground for malcontents who don't trust the government? Sure there are lists. Do you know how many Americans have FBI files? A hell of a lot. The same paranoid agencies that assemble and create things such as FBI files are also going to create lists from email/internet searches. -
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Re: Government list
Sun, September 13, 2009 - 9:40 PMScanning emails is not a list, Horse. Yes, the government keeps lists - they do not keep them in the manner which you were suggesting. Going to a survival tribe wont get you on a list.
Multiple visits to known terrorist web sites along with odd credit card activity MIGHT get you on a list. -
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Re: Government list
Sun, September 13, 2009 - 10:20 PMi think they watch out for terrorist and anti American propaganda like the one girl who said anti american stuff on her Myspace. That and kiddie porn site visitors.
They also research your blogs and activity AFTER you've done crazy stuff like massacre your college classmates. -
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Re: Government list
Sun, September 13, 2009 - 10:24 PMHorse..... I am starting to belive that this theory of yours is why you disguise yourself or distort your face in your profile pics! hahahahahah -
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Re: Government list
Sat, September 19, 2009 - 4:45 PMWhat you fail to realize is that the data collection is blind. They accumulate tons of data from all sorts of internet sources, sort of like Google's cached pages. The data is saved so it can be tested or referred to historically. In other words if you came up on their radar today, they could pull up your internet presence for the last 6 months.
The official reason is that the antiterrorist folks might find out today that some guy they want has been using the online name Fernando. Even if he has removed his tracks, the historical archives will reveal him and even give IP information. You could see where he was 6 months ago, watch his movements across the world or into America with a nuke. As they chase Fernando they can roll up his entire support organization.
Are there lists? Oh yeah.
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Re: Government list
Mon, September 28, 2009 - 11:49 AMthe government list is the list of the devil.
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OF COURSE THERE ARE LISTS
Mon, October 5, 2009 - 5:55 PMmy FBI folder has given a government employee something to do these past 38 yrs ......so what ............. and my taxes , and yours , pays their pension ......... oh well ........ as an environmentalist i see the need for lists especially for the Environmental Liberation Front - ELF - nut cases who have been setting California on fire these past 5 yrs ......... destroying lumber company property ....... destroying SUV's at car dealerships .......... on and on ............. they are as sick as the people who bomb abortion clinics .........so I say they are making a list ........checking it twice ........gonna find out who's been naughty or nice ............... gee anti war Irag / Afganistan progressive / socialist s who are bent on violence to spread their message ......... of saving trees and global warming will kill us ????? ............. in a survival situation after the BIG UH OH remember there will be all types of radicals out there looking for your FOOD ! in the name of the earth goddess of course
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Re: Government list
Mon, October 5, 2009 - 10:46 PMI was on the Homeland Security watch list for a few years after researching a college paper on radical environmentalists. I visited the ELF website a few times, ordered a copy of the "Field Guide to Monkeywrenching" off Amazon, and next thing you know I can't fly without having my bags searched; I can't pre-print my boarding passes, and someone always has to make a phone call before they let me on the plane.
They did always let me fly, and they only messed up my luggage once, but it was a little annoying (and a little amusing). I doubt I was ever important enough to have a live person studying me, but guess I scored enough points in some computer algorithm to get my name on the list. -
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Re: Government list
Sun, October 11, 2009 - 12:05 AMThe Government DOES watch internet traffic. I love to check out my hit counter on Gunversation to see who has visited. The Justice Dept has been there, lotta military, some police departments. You can see a lot of information with the right code. You can even see what size screen they are using.
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Re: Government list
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 8:24 AMyes they do.
what to do to not be put on a list?
Dont sign up for sites like this one LOL :)
