A specific subtopic to the first aid thread:
I may have to start carrying around an epi-pen. I hear they expire quickly, and keeping one in each car and in the house (or wherever each one should be) isn't as cost effective as simply keeping ONE on yourself at all times. How quickly do they expire?
I may have to start carrying around an epi-pen. I hear they expire quickly, and keeping one in each car and in the house (or wherever each one should be) isn't as cost effective as simply keeping ONE on yourself at all times. How quickly do they expire?
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Re: epi-pen
Fri, December 7, 2007 - 9:52 PMEpi-pens are good for just under two years. 20 months is what they say, provided it's kept in ideal storage conditions (I would not reccommend the sitting-in-the-sun glovebox if you have to keep one in the car) but they don't exactly go 'bad' like milk when the expiration date is up. More than anything, their potency drops below acceptable tolerances and the lawyers will no longer stand behind the product in the event it fails to do as well as it's supposed to. I'm sure an epi-pen that's 2 or even 3 years old will still do somewhat of a job, of course not as good as a new one, and I certainly wouldn't reccomend 'doubling up' to make up for the lack in potency. that's a good way to short circuit your heart if you miscalculate. -
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Re: epi-pen
Fri, December 7, 2007 - 9:58 PMI'm more of a 'cure' kinda guy myself, rather than treatment. If I were allergic to bees or whatnot, I might go through the extra hassle and expense of immunizing myself to their poison, rather than live in a world where something as insignificant as a bee could threaten my life at any moment.
I'm already working on my immunity in the event I should be challenged to a battle of whits involving goblets of wine and iokane. Now is the time to prepare, people! -
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Re: epi-pen
Sun, December 9, 2007 - 8:23 AMAnaphylactic attacks can be rapidly deadly! a bee sting without a adrenaline injector or allergy kit could cost you your life out in the middle of nowhere. An epi-pen will last 3 years when kept in a cool/dark place & will save your life. I highly recommend it.
As far as Venom immunotherapy, there some things you should know. It is costly, not many places do it (you'll probably have to travel to find one), it takes upwards to 3 years for it to work, and it takes injections usually every week (slooowy increasing the venom). Also the venom is different in each kind of bee/wasp: so you would have to get injections for the "honey bee" & then different injections for a "wasp".
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Re: epi-pen
Sun, December 9, 2007 - 5:04 PMYou can't beat a cicilian in a battle of wit's. Inconcievable!!!
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Re: epi-pen
Sun, December 9, 2007 - 1:32 PMRemember ALL expiration dates are arbitarily assigned. With food and drugs. The day of expiration is probably the day which is 10 days before the first noted loss of effectibeness was noted in 10% of all tests. You probably have 3 to 6 more months effective use, depending on method of storage. -
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Unsu...
Re: epi-pen
Sun, December 9, 2007 - 3:43 PMThe dates themselves may be earlier than necessary, but, no, they are not assigned arbitrarily.
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Re: epi-pen
Sun, December 9, 2007 - 5:25 PMI don't know how much an epi-pen cost's but the bee's are only out part of the year. I think if my life depended on it I would go ahead and buy new one's every year. Do you have to have one for different kind's of bee's or does one cover all kind's of sting's? I've been stung several time's at once but other than swelling up and hurting like hell it didnt bother me. Those damn bumble bee's can sting you more than once. I had one attack me in a hay barn once and stung me 4 time's. Jeeze, I had to kill him to get him off of me. -
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Re: epi-pen
Sun, December 9, 2007 - 6:36 PMI think most people think of bees when it comes to discussions on epi-pens. But there's a variety of reasons to need one, even food allergies (which would be my excuse). I was thinking to keep one at home, and one in my backpack. Unfortunately, the pack stays in the car sometimes, and a Georgia summer can be brutally hot... -
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Re: epi-pen
Sun, December 9, 2007 - 6:59 PMI have a friend I've been canoeing with a few time's that is highly allergic to bee sting's and he just packed his epi in an ammo can. Is it something that need's to be refridgerated? pardon my ignorance but I don't know anything about them. I'm curious cause I think it would be a good idea to have one in a first aid kit now that you brought it up. -
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Re: epi-pen
Sun, December 9, 2007 - 9:37 PMFor Brent, and anyone else who was wondering:
epi-pens are basically a shot of adrenaline in a self-dispensing syringe. You jam it in your leg when you're having an allergic reaction, and the little spring loaded needle snaps out and takes about 10 seconds to unload it's full little pocket of juice into your muscle.
It's made to prevent anaphylactic shock...or however you spell it, which is mostly brought on by allergic reactions to things like stings, foods one is allergic to, and some medicines like pennecillin, horse syrum, and even the dyes used in some x-ray procedures. (basically, anything you can think of that a person has ever been allergic to or could be allergic to, can bring on an anaphylactic episode to the right (or wrong) person) Usually, you first get exposed to these things and you're fine...but your immune system puts whatever you were exposed to on the 'black list' of things to fight next time it comes around...so on your SECOND exposure, your body reacts hardcore, your lungs tighten up and you can't breathe, your blood vessels dilate and your blood pressure drops significantly. you can die within minutes, and the onset is sudden and often unpredictable. In rare cases, people develop this reaction to airborne things like certain pollens, which really sucks for them as they can't even trust the air they breathe anymore, for the rest of their life.
Epi-pen chemical constricts your blood veins, opens your lungs, and kicks up your heart rate along with giving you that good old 'adrenaline rush' without having to jump off a tall building. It's a great idea to have around if you or anyone you know have any questions about your own succeptability to anaphylaxis. -
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Re: epi-pen
Sun, December 9, 2007 - 9:39 PMthat girl in your avatar is pretty, mick. But I'm really gender-confused now because your previous picture was a bald dude in a suit. who'se who?
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Re: epi-pen
Sun, December 9, 2007 - 10:37 PMis an epi-pen an over the counter thing or is it prescription? drug store's carry them I guess. I'd like to get a few for the first aid kit's. You never know when something could happen at home where you might need one. If it can be used for any serious allergic reaction then it would great to keep someone alive till you can get to the ER. Even not on a camping trip we're still about 30 minute's to the closest hospital from home and an ambulance probably couldnt find the place. I've already took Chad's advice and put a .38 round in my first aid kit. ha ha -
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Re: epi-pen
Mon, December 10, 2007 - 6:52 AMEpi-pens are prescription items.
And Max Headroom did have hair, I believe. :-)
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Re: epi-pen
Thu, January 24, 2008 - 8:53 AMPrescription - for a reason. You can convince most docs to give you one if you're always out in backcountry. The thing to remember - IT WILL KILL YOU IF IT ADMINISTERED IMPROPERLY. A reminder that heart attacks and anaphylactic shock look strikingly similar at times to even trained pros, and to administer an epipen would instantly kill that person. ALWAYS ALWAYS try 50 mg Benadryl FIRST if it seems to come on slowly. When that fails and you're really dying, go for your Epi. If you are NOT in anaphylactic shock, just having a mild or severe reaction but not enough to kill you, DONT TAKE THE EPI-PEN - YOU WILL DIE.
Sorry, felt the STRONG need to clarify that as it was only briefly mentioned. -
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Re: epi-pen
Thu, January 24, 2008 - 4:07 PMI have mild to moderate reactions to bee and wasp stings. They lay me out for a few hours, but a couple of Benadryl prevents the worst of it. My doctor recommended that in my case an epi-pen might not be a good idea, as I have chronic high blood pressure and survived a couple of mini-strokes (called TIAs). So the rush of adrenaline might be enough to finish me off...finally.
So check your blood pressure first. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: epi-pen
Thu, January 24, 2008 - 4:43 PMI've only been stung twice, by wasps. several years apart, both on my jugular vein of all places. gave me a headache but the sting itself didn't hurt any worse than how your tongue feels with a drop of tobasco.
I wonder, to anyone who knows and since this thread is temporarily revived, is anaphylactic shock just bee stings, or venom in general? can you get it from a rattler? a brown recluse? things that cause a nasty reaction in ANYONE? I hike and camp regularly in places with widows, scorpions, recluses, and rattlers. would an epi-pen save my bacon if i got a nasty bite or is it just for people with bee allergies? -
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Re: epi-pen
Thu, January 24, 2008 - 5:52 PMAn epi pen is specific to treating anaphylaxis; it is not antivenin.
If it's anaphylaxis, you'll know.
'Cause you'll be dead in about 5 minutes.
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Unsu...
Re: epi-pen
Fri, January 25, 2008 - 9:33 AMFire ants can also cause anaphylaxis. I believe penicillin can as well.
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Unsu...
Re: epi-pen
Fri, January 25, 2008 - 9:42 AMAlso it should be noted that in anaphylaxis the real danger isn't the substance itself, but rather your own body's allergic reaction to it. In the case of snakes, most venom is either hemotoxic (attacks red blood cells) or neurotoxic (attacks the nervous system). With venom like that in your body, it's an all-out assault on your blood or nerve cells, so any "allergic reaction" is like saying you're allergic to death.
Oh, and most pit vipers, rattlesnakes being among them, are packing hemotoxin.
So I've studied venom! What, you wanna make something of it?
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Re: epi-pen
Sat, January 26, 2008 - 12:00 PMThousand, I'm not sure, Malicious might know. But I've heard some snake bite medicine is made with the white blood cell's from horses. Just one more thing you can't do with a motorcycle. HAA HAA HAA HAA HAA!!! -
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Re: epi-pen
Sat, January 26, 2008 - 12:12 PMOh, wait.
That was PRO horse.
Der.
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Re: epi-pen
Sat, January 26, 2008 - 12:10 PM"Because this antivenin is obtained from horses, snakebite victims who are sensitive to horse proteins must be carefully managed. The danger is that they could develop an adverse reaction or even a potentially fatal allergic condition called anaphylactic shock."
Now there's a fun chain of events.... -
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Re: epi-pen
Sat, January 26, 2008 - 12:16 PMSo your saying, treat the snake bite with the horse antivenim then if the person is allergic to horses, use the epi pen? HA HA
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Re: epi-pen
Mon, January 28, 2008 - 8:16 PM"I wonder, to anyone who knows and since this thread is temporarily revived, is anaphylactic shock just bee stings, or venom in general? can you get it from a rattler? a brown recluse? things that cause a nasty reaction in ANYONE? I hike and camp regularly in places with widows, scorpions, recluses, and rattlers. would an epi-pen save my bacon if i got a nasty bite or is it just for people with bee allergies?"
Of the things you've stated epinephrine only works on allergies. It works by temporarily shutting down your immune system. Anaphylaxis can be caused by any number of things: bees, peanuts, tomatoes, whatever.
Venom works in a manner individual to the poison, in which shutting down your immune system would not help. Spider bites tend to dissolve your flesh, so your best bet is to ice the bite to prevent the venom from spreading.
Here's a thought, but I'm not certain about it, and I wouldn't recommend trying it unless it was a life or death kind of thing. One of the other effects of epinephrine is the constriction of blood vessels. This is used in chemotherapy when the chemical leaks into the area around the IV to prevent the damaging effects of the medicine. In the case of a snake bite, injecting the epi-pen near the bite could narrow the surrounding blood vessels and slow the spread of the poison. I wouldn't use it on a spider bite, at best it probably wouldn't do anything. -
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Re: epi-pen
Mon, January 28, 2008 - 8:39 PMAfter reading another tread, it looks like my statement about the immunosuppression effect not working on a snake bite could be wrong. If there is an allergic component to your reaction to the venom it might do something. However, it was also mentioned that snake bites may take a while to take effect therefore the epi-pen wouldn't do much because it's a very short-acting drug. That, and speeding up your system may hasten or worsen the effects of the venom. An antihistamine would probably be better for a snake bite, having a longer duration and no adrenergic (fight or flight) effects.
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Re: epi-pen
Thu, January 31, 2008 - 9:11 AMThanks Mal...I really wanted everyone to understand Epi's purpose. That should help.
:-)
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