Enough talk, what are you really doing?

topic posted Sat, July 4, 2009 - 6:24 PM by  Mitch
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This tribe has become nice and cerebral* during my absence. You all talk the interweb talk, but what are you really doing to prepare for an EOW situation? When was the last time you hiked back into the woods eight or nine miles and lived for days, or conquered a high peak, or pushed yourself more than your usual donut run? What have you pussies done lately to harden yourselves?


I'll go first. This week I won in my division and weight class during a cage fight this week. then I went to a friend's house and banged her brains out for three hours, then I climbed a 12000 foot mountain with a fifty pound pack.

That mutherfucker went down like a sack of potatoes.



*cerebral: Latin for Pussy bitch
posted by:
Mitch
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  • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

    Sun, July 5, 2009 - 2:02 PM
    ha ha ha ha I got that beat. I had toxic Bratwurst cooked on a charcoal grill and watched the fireworks. My next impossible task will be to walk to my mailbox and collect a check for 1200.00 bucks Lol. That sucker will die like all the rest. Free
  • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

    Wed, July 8, 2009 - 10:29 PM
    I have started exercising. I'll be up to speed in a few weeks. But skills are where it's at now. Bought a pressure cooker for $2 at a garage sale, need to switch out the gasket, then i'm taking a canning class. growing tomatoes right now. purchasing 2 more half barrels soon, will plant a vertical potato garden in one and Lambsquarters in another. Lettuce in the other. Gonna experiment with acorns this fall. drying, grinding, leeching, making bread, etc. also gonna buy a wheat grinder (hand-crank). more classes for August: cheesemaking, breadmaking, lacto-fermentation, yoghurt making.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

    Sat, July 11, 2009 - 1:27 PM
    Aside from the usual DIY stuff, I've been working on my physical conditioning, building strength and endurance. I've shaved huge amounts of time off of my marathon walking regimen and can now do a 5k in about 40 minutes without really breaking a sweat so now I'm doing it with an increasingly heavy pack on my back so that it's a challenge.

    Do I get a gold star, Mitch?
  • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

    Sun, July 12, 2009 - 1:54 AM
    I suppose the most important thing of done just in the last couple days was slowly move one one my close friends towards survivalism. Several days ago I got him to walk with me from our local town to my house, saying that it would be good to know how long and difficult it was to walk, and just yesterday morning I helped him buy his first gun at the flea market, a Mosin Nagant. Not earthshaking events, but I find them to be a good start. I have other preperations, but i believe getting other people involved is the most important.
    • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

      Wed, July 15, 2009 - 9:58 PM
      Bravo Horse and Survival Mama! You are keeping the spirit and making true efforts towards a survivalist goal. That you are actually doing something (not just talking about it) is golden. As for being macho, if I remember correctly the ant ate all winter while the grasshopper starved. Macho don't fill no bellies.

      Special acclaim for Josiah. He has helped un-liberalize a friend. Friends don't let friends vote Liberal. What you did was akin to an intervention. Too bad that Mosin will beat him so badly he will never want to shoot the thing.
      • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

        Thu, July 16, 2009 - 12:05 AM
        I practice martial arts almost everyday. Staying in shape has always been a way of life and discipline. My day job is extremely demanding, both physically and mentally. I have been trying very hard lateley to handle my anger management. I love my job, but its in a very bad neighborhood. I see people get fucked up and fucked over on a weekly basis. I have to watch out for meth and crackheads stealing from the buildings we work for and the employees walking to thier car at the end of the day. I used to get into physical altercations when I was new to my job area 5 years ago. Nobody fucks with me anymore. On a rare occasion do I have to run after someone and beat the shit out of them.

        I used to be poor..... I used to steal......I used to be a prison inmate. I know the tricks of scum.
        • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

          Thu, July 16, 2009 - 8:45 AM
          Well at the mo I'm sussing out bug out locations, such as caves and old mines, there's a couple of old gold and copper mines about 15Km away and many caves only known to a few farmers and locals, some nobody knows about, haven't found any with aboriginal rock art yet. Caves are pretty easy to find, key is to find one above the flooding level. Old mines are last resort, too much mercury, arsenic and cyanide in the ground water, which was used for gold extraction, plus they're prone to collapse.

          At home I know where all the dead ground is, so that's an advantage there, so I'll only go to a bug out point if the sky's going to fall, or if we're being invaded.

          Humping it by foot would also be my last resort as I'd have to bring the kiddly winks and wife along. hahahaha

          Yes hardening or battle hardening what ever you want to call it is good thing, at least you know your body can handle it, if push comes to shove. If you want to make it harder or mix it up, try doing it with sleep and food deprivation for about 3 days straight, you know your there when you start hallucinating. Alternatively do the 100 clicker (62 miles) in 24hrs with 50Kg (110pounds), plus weapon and munitions adds another 7-16KG (14 -40 pounds) and it's a real pain in the arse not being able to swing your arms naturally. Now that is hard shit, thank fuck I don't have to do that any more.




          • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

            Thu, July 16, 2009 - 9:42 AM
            In my area, I really dont know where to bug out to. I am sure that like minded people will head for the hills. Thats going to be a real clusterfuck in itself. The threats in my area for dissaster are earthquake and tidalwave. When the next big one hits here, I believe that sanfrancisco will sink to sink to the bottom of the sea and the Giant squid will be its new inhabitants. Otherwise, I would much rather stay put.
          • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

            Fri, July 17, 2009 - 7:46 PM
            Craig:
            What the fuck was that mad, rambling loud of vomit you just posted? The adults are talking about what they are currently doing to prepare for a survival situation and you start talking about mine shafts which are a horrible place to go in the first place... What the fuckit biscuit?

            People avoid mine shafts. Caves are one thing, but abandoned mine shafts are bad even under the current circumstances.

            So, Craig; have you won a fist fight recently, maybe skinned a mamal, climbed a tall mountain, beat an ox to death with your bare cock, or even camped in an area where bereft of concrete tables and a grill?

            Craig; do thirty pushups right now! Hit the ground, troop!
  • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

    Mon, November 16, 2009 - 9:29 PM
    4 days ago i loaded and unloaded 2 tons of baled hay, by hand
    3 days ago i loaded and unloaded a lil over a half ton of amish lumber
    then i loaded and unloaded a load of furniture someone needed hauled to a storage unit
    2 days ago i walked to my woods and carried up 3 deadfall trees, one was a lil rough but i handled it, ir was 35 feet long and 6 inches at thebase
    yesterday i hauled 3 more trees and cut split and piled them with chainsaw and 2bit axe
    today i was lazy, i only hauled up 1 tree, cut, split and piled it
    tomorrow, ive got what looks like about 5 ton of horse dung to shovel into my truck and haul away
    (its so cool to get paid to fertilize my fields )
    i wish i had time to work out, ths workin everyday sux havent even had my horse n buggy out for a sunday drive in 6 months
  • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

    Tue, November 17, 2009 - 9:00 AM
    Well I'm Chuck Norris so it doesn't matter.
    But I train with hand to hand weapons with my left hand, Shooting with my left. I made two camp stoves. And I'm in the middle of training two noobies/sheeple. Right now I'm focusing on mental and preeping, But as soon as I move back to my beloved Michigan, I'm going to do more feild training.
    • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

      Tue, November 17, 2009 - 2:20 PM
      Today I dragged two deer out of the woods . Up hill for over 100 yards. It sucked and I was out of breath twice but I got it done. At 51 and Diabetic I consider that an accomplishment. The one deer was over 120 dressed. Up a steep hill out of a creek bottom. No fun guys. But there are fresh tenderloins cooling in the refrigerator . Im slicing up an onion and some taters in a few minutes. Its going to be wonderful. Michael
    • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

      Tue, November 17, 2009 - 2:23 PM
      "And I'm in the middle of training two noobies/sheeple."

      Training them to what? May I inquire as to your qualifications/background/training/education?
      • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

        Tue, November 17, 2009 - 3:18 PM
        I get a good workout doing my job. Its very physical and the stress can get out of hand especially with my supervisor position. But I am practicing on keeping things under control and not going crazy. After work, I practice Muay Thai and I spar heavily with 3 guys every night. It has helped me manage my asthma and keeps me focused on a goal. I will give myself a break and eat fried turkey for Thanksgiving but I have been controling what I eat to stay in this weight division. I will be fighting a big match in January against someone really good. Staying in shape is part of my lifestyle and I am fortunate.

        Ammunition is getting very expensive and scarce at the stores in my area. But I have a good supply stocked up for my battle rifle and my shotgun. I hope that I never need it. I still go to range and shoot my .45. I have been buying the dirty reloads from the range but they have been working well. Just have to spend time cleaning the gun and wiping un-burnt powder from my face and arms. I will be ordering some ammo online soon for my rifle.
      • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

        Tue, November 17, 2009 - 8:36 PM
        Shoot, make something out of nothing, Trap, fish, Make a fish trap, shelter making, Fire making, water purification, More or less the works.
        I have a survival group and it would be nice to have them.
        My experience. Well Ive' been shooting sense I was around six, that goes for fishing and gardening as well. Ben hunting sense 12.
        Read more military manuals and talked to vets for hours on end. Train constantly. Education? well I admit I have a GED and my education is lacking (I took two jobs at 15 to help mom out.) But I learn all I can.
        And I know some won't count this for much but Ive' been broke my whole life. So Ive' had to make due and improvise my whole life.
        Hunting fishing and gardening wasn't a hobby it's life.
        There's more but you get the picture.
  • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

    Sat, November 21, 2009 - 9:17 AM
    I have a group of about 14 loyal lifelong friends/family. We have a group of ATV's, trucks, guns, supplies. MRE's, stockpiled gas, food, alcohol, cigs, RV's etc. We have a location that is away from everyone up in the national forest a few hours from the City. If we all call each other in a major emergency... we launch Operation bravo... on the road within 48 hours. We are not a bunch of nuts... I have a sportscar, invest in stocks and live a normal life but I also know throughout History that events... natural or geo-political will occur and it can happen at anytime... if it doesn't happen... fantastic... but if it does... I won't be in a city with with hundreds of thousands of people going hungry and looking for food and supplies. I will be long gone before it hits and will survive until order is restored. Humans without food/shelter/supplies will take from those who have. Im prepared for the worst and hope for the best.
    • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

      Sun, November 22, 2009 - 4:55 PM
      Sounds like a fine bunch of average joes who *think* they have their crap together. Getting along playing cards on a saturday night is not the same as creating a successful survivalist group. Everyone knows that even the best of friends don't often make good roommates. Multiply that by 14 people, compound the stress levels to 900 percent above reality television survival shows during sweeps week, add in a little Murphy's law on the logistics table, and all I ask is that someone posts the aftermath on youtube so I can laugh my ass off at their dramatic demise.

      48 hours in an emergency might as well be 48 months. it's not gonna happen. Niether is the nineteen required tonnes of food storage going to materialize from your five fishes and five loaves.
      • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

        Sun, November 22, 2009 - 6:19 PM
        Granted... it would be a terrible situation but I would rather try to survive with people I know and trust with supplies than board up my house and try to stay alive with roving gangs running around neighborhoods. It would be a really shitty scenario but I would take it over staying in any major city. Good post though... especially the youtube video... haha.
        • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

          Tue, November 24, 2009 - 12:49 PM
          Mal is right. Calling it Operation Bravo?

          Is your group called Super Alpha Wolf Squadron Strikeforce Elite?

          Wait..... It's your HALO online team. You guys have worked this out through your gametime headsets because a video game has made you all expert tacticians, marksmen, and proffessional alien slayers. Why not team up? in real life, you'd be UNSTOPPABLE!!! Every one of you is more awesome than chuck norris, right? How close am I?
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            offline 39

            Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

            Tue, November 24, 2009 - 1:51 PM
            I suspect dead on
            • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

              Tue, November 24, 2009 - 2:10 PM
              Are these mini militia squads the only way to go for survival? I mean they sound nice and all that if you can recruit all sorts of devoted people, and have a specific mission and enemy to fight. But its hard to get a reliable group of people together like that easily and, maintain when its just a large group of friends.

              Are you in Michigan?
              • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

                Tue, November 24, 2009 - 2:32 PM
                I wish I had a more pro-active bug out crew. All I have are my lady and my immediate family. None of them are trained for anything. Its a far cry from a mobile militia squad. I wish I had one of those. I also wish I had a fully fueled UH-60 Blackhawk ready at all times as a bug out vehicle. I will ask Santa.
                • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

                  Tue, November 24, 2009 - 2:52 PM
                  so teach the family
                  its like having fire drills you either do it or die crying when its too late

                  we have a saying out here in farmland. wish in one hand, shit in the other
                  see which one gets filled first
                  my grams always said ' if wishes werehorses then beggars would ride"

                  dont wish, work for
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

                    Tue, November 24, 2009 - 4:19 PM
                    I have a loose network. Some of us are states away, but know how to get from A to B without roads and in dangerous situations.

                    If it really hit the fan, I'd be looking at a total group population of about six. And these are just the core, people I know I can trust to the last. None of them are my blood relations, and I'm very comfortable with that. I expect, however, that these six may end up with others, or that others may end up with us one way or another. I'm preparing logistically for those numbers. I'll have my hands full enough just picking fights over stupid things like bad grammar, ideological differences, and other in-person flame wars. I don't need the added stresses of lack of food or security or shelter. We'll be the only group with full utility power and enough ammo to chit-chat long range in morse code with our AK's.
                    • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

                      Tue, November 24, 2009 - 4:32 PM
                      my youngest bro is workin on the power, ive gotten plans for a low rpm 120VAC 3 phase alternator
                      hes workin on a vertical wind turbine to turn it, if it works up on mom n dads big hill, we'll make a few of them
                      we're still tryin to find a way to pull water up 200 feet without power, we'll get it someday soon im sure
                      if worse comes to worst, ill set up a horse-go-round and let the horse give us power
                    • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

                      Tue, November 24, 2009 - 6:19 PM
                      Thousand,
                      Just a quick question for you: You mentioned that you have a loose network that is scattered. Without going into great details and giving away proprietary information - what kind of communication plans do you have to contact / coordinate with your network. I mean besides using your AK's for Morse Code? .-.. --- .-..

                      Majordad
                      • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

                        Tue, November 24, 2009 - 7:44 PM
                        I moved from Oregon to Minnesota. Sold two houses with morgtages and bought a place in MN. Real estate is cheap in the small rural areas and you can grow your own food. Also, only 300 miles from Canada. I brought chickens and rabbits with me because when I searched the internet, I just couldn't find any granges or places to get cheap stock. We looked like the beverly hillbillies traveling from Oregon, getting up at five in the morning and rolling up the Penske truck door to feed all the animals. Two dogs too. I love it here. Love seeing all the harvesting going on and knowing I am right in the midst of all the basic food anyone would need. I am surrounded by wild turkeys, white tailed deer. It is fabulous. I am totally living the dream. I think anyone who is a true survivalist (and we all know who we are) needs to take steps to obtain independance from many things such as social pressures, lifestyles, crutches such as cigs and alcohol, get in shape so as not to need meds for high blood pressure, depression etc. It takes a lot of effort and doesn't happen overnight. Most importantly, surround yourself with like minded people. Work together. Maybe your time, space and money don't allow you to go whole hog for stock piling EVERYTHING. Get your friends and trusted mates and work together hoarding and stocking. You and yours go after certain items and one friend stocks another. Don't leave yourself hanging though if you all get in a tiff or one moves away. My DH is not so gung ho but he is a good sport and supports my "craziness". So if you're single, stay that way or make sure your "hook-up" is like minded as well. You can accomplish so much more together.
                      • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

                        Mon, November 30, 2009 - 11:58 AM
                        Majordad----

                        We have rendesvous points, and we are competent enough to get from one to the other or leave notes that others wouldn't recognize.

                        Just like the old days of mountain men and trappers. If you're out far enough and over dangerous enough terrain that a rescue party is just not practical, well there's not much need to communicate. People either show up, or they don't.

                        This is assuming the WORST case scenario. There are many other scenarios, local, state, or even regional disasters which would still leave many communication methods intact and most transportation and infrastructure intact outside of the affected area.

                        The most important factor of a successful group is to have a common base point, one which is as self-sufficient as possible, one that is safe, and one that is totally legal and low key and does not have any reason to attract attention from bad guys or big brother. Without that, the process of rendezvous and forming up a plan for direction is much more difficult.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

                    Tue, November 24, 2009 - 5:11 PM
                    yes, I was, only being sarcastic with the wishes. My parents are old and they aren't in the best shape. Its like trying to pull teeth to get them to live healthier. I have two more atthletic family members that will be handy but they are currently slow to take dissaster seriously right now. My lady is strong and has potential, but she is all caught up in the comercial vissage of the Holidays. I made the preparations so that we have supplies and vehicles to get out of Dodge. I dont know what form dissaster will come in when it hits. Only thing I foresee are Earthquake and Riots.

                    I am also beggining to think its a good Idea to start planting and growing things at my parent's house.
                    • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

                      Tue, November 24, 2009 - 5:58 PM
                      Sean,
                      If you're not "out of Dodge" when it happens (whatever "it" is) it becomes very hard to get out. It's best to talk with a couple of friends who think like you think and then not only plan - but do. (Remember Yoda's advice to Luke Skywalker -"Don't try- DO!")

                      Survival needs to be a lifestyle before the SHTF because it takes some adjusting, and the longer you have to move up the learning curve, the better off you are. If you have to learn to hunt, shoot, build a cabin, plant and tend a garden, chop wood, set up security, learn to work as a team, etc, and only have a week or so to do it - I wish you good luck because you're going to need it.

                      I'm relatively new to this board - but been doing the lifestyle for a while. And I tell you this, I'm retired military, and thought I was pretty well prepared. Then I moved to Alaska and started the "do" part without the logistical support of the USMC and the availability of local stores that carry anything you need, and found out that living the lifestyle is not as easy as it looks. Skill sets take time to learn, so you best start learning now. Trust me on this - growing a garden in Alaska - even with the long summer days (22+hours of sunshine) is not easy if you don't have the right skill set.

                      I've read several people on this board and others who thinks survival is all about having guns and and training to take on the military or some UN para-military group. That's the stuff of novels. Survival is about living today, and being prepared so that you can live through tomorrow and the next day.

                      I have read enough from "beast" and "thousand..." to think that they are on the right path. Others, IMHO, are simply playing at living out some end time novel they have read. I have a lot of opinions on those kind of thinkers, but will save those thoughts for another day.

                      Hope this gives you something to think about, and a bit of motivation to go out and DO.

                      Majordad
                      • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

                        Tue, November 24, 2009 - 8:12 PM
                        I agree Majordad... its not about taking on the government and military crap.. its about Survival. I have prepared for about 6 months of survival with friends and family... anything longer than that is out of my hands to a certain degree... things will either get better or worse. My group goes out quading, paintballing in the desert/mountains, camping, fishing, gold prospecting, etc. In my opinion the best thing is having the supplies in place and at least being prepared. The worst thing is when SHTF and your only option is to run to walmart and try to stock up on food/supplies (good luck) and weather the storm in a big city... that would be a really shitty situation. I would make the calls... get things ready and get the hell out of the city. If people decide to stay... thats their decision but I am at least prepared to help friends/family survive until things are better (or so i hope). I agree that alot of people are full of it and just talk. I was past thinking about it years ago and have prepared for the last 6 years. Most people think life will continue as is... and I just know too much about history and something big will happen that will dissrupt our current society and way of living. In the last 120 years we have gone from riding on horses and wagons to Automobiles, Electricity, Radio, radar, space, to the moon, TV, internet, harnessing the power of nuclear weapons, airplanes, satelites, mass production, computers, phones along with 2 World Wars, earthquakes, floods, drought, tsunamis, pandemic... governments have collapsed and will... its part of our history and will repeat itself. To look at that and know that I am only 29... in my lifetime I will see similar problems... if not worse. To me the question is not if... but when. At least I can get the hell out dodge for a few months and rough it out as best as possible... to people who aren't prepared... I think its a great idea to get prepared. It might happen tomorrow or it might not happed for 30 years. Its not a bad idea to at a minimum stock up on food and water to survive at least for 3 months.
  • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

    Wed, November 25, 2009 - 4:55 AM
    <<I'll go first. This week I won in my division and weight class during a cage fight this week. then I went to a friend's house and banged her brains out for three hours, then I climbed a 12000 foot mountain with a fifty pound pack. >>

    Tuh, that's easy. I got my nose bloodied wrastlin, oogled the lats of a young black boy, AND got my iPod workin. Beat THAT.

    Only 3 hours?
    • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

      Thu, November 26, 2009 - 5:15 PM
      Grid Rebel, well said. Pretty much exactly what we did in 2008. We moved out of the city to a small private lake with 10 acres surrounded by deer and other wild animals. We raise rabbits, chickens ,ducks and soon to be raising a couple of goats. We have a huge garden plots and many years supply of Heirloom seeds. We are working now on power by solar cell battery charging and inverting to 110 from the 12 volt dc. We are in Michigan. I have many clients in Minnesota as I build and sell Musky lures for a living. I have been to Hibbing, the Twin cities, International falls, and mankato. Go to Vermillion lake and spend a week fishing there. Its paradise. Michael
      • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

        Thu, November 26, 2009 - 7:19 PM
        Michael, how is the solar power going? I 've done quite a bit of research on solar, wind and water power. All are available but the cost to implement is so darn expensive, it's prohibitive. I would love to tell my electric company to shove it. I have a monthly base fee of $28.00 right off the bat in addition to my usage fee, regardless of how much or little electricity I use. It sucks. Then add on all the "taxes" . I tell you, I feel like I can't win. I first bought a little house in this little town but when I found out I couldn't have chickens I said crap on that. Bought another place - huge house on 81/2 acres just a mile out of town and still have the little house. I can't believe the price of real estate here and in other small towns. Some places just want you to pay the taxes and the house is yours. And I am not talking hundreds of thousands of dollars. Maybe 20-30 thousand or less. I picked up the little house - and I do mean little - only 600 square feet but its on two lots so there are possiblities - for 13.5K YUP - that's what I said, thirteen grand. And we just moved here in June this year. But one thing I will say about living in a small town is everyone knows your business. The city councel actually gets together to gossip about any public nuisance etc. (like weeds in lawns, partial construction/remodel progress) Luckily, I found this place just outside of town and it is rural farmland so I live without the rules. Now I want to go whole hog and get off the grid - completely for several reasons. Independance, financial, personal freedom. But cost wise, I don't see it happening because I am not the brightest bulb on the tree and am not that mechanically inclined and my husband is a little (a lot) resistant to some of my ideas and he thinks I am a dreamer. So I have to go slow and easy with him, more like hey honey, lets just see if we can build this just for fun etc. So I guess what I am getting at is how is it going, how much is it costing you and how long will it take and how efficient??????? I don't want to supplement, I want the whole shebang. I have a lot of wind but not as much as I expected. It is strong but not consistent either daily or monthly. Solar is so expensive. By the way, your place sounds great. Having a lake is the bomb.
        • Re: Enough talk, what are you really doing?

          Mon, November 30, 2009 - 12:05 PM
          Making your own wind turbine is not hard. Anyone who can follow simple instructions, wrap wire around a block of wood, drill a hole, turn a wrench, and pour epoxy into a tray can pretty much make any size turbine.... and they can work in as little as 5mph winds. A truly fine quality, low-RPM 3Kw wind generator, which would cost you in the neighborhood of $20,000.00 retail, you could make in a couple weeks of 'an hour here, an hour there' for about seven hundred bucks in materials costs. You might get up to a thousand, total cost if you require someone else to do your welding for the frame. Harbor Freight will sell you a good welder for a hundred bucks, you can learn how to weld in fifteen minutes, and you'll be amazed how very often a welder comes in handy when you have one on hand. It'll pay for itself within the first year of it's twenty-plus year lifespan.

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