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Hi, all. I'm new here.
Scenario: You and your family will comfortably holed up at your retreat, as you have planned ahead. The main plan is to start building a tight knit community, you have room for 9 more people. Skills that are already covered: sewing, hunting, ammo & arms knowledge, cooking, baking, growing food, herbal wisdom, & carpentry.
I appreciate all of your input! Michelle
Scenario: You and your family will comfortably holed up at your retreat, as you have planned ahead. The main plan is to start building a tight knit community, you have room for 9 more people. Skills that are already covered: sewing, hunting, ammo & arms knowledge, cooking, baking, growing food, herbal wisdom, & carpentry.
I appreciate all of your input! Michelle
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Re: Who do you choose?
Sat, October 24, 2009 - 4:41 PMWell, I'd have to select my people really carefully. I may depend on them for my very life at times, and I may depend on them for the rest of my life. I would consider this decision to be as critical as proper selection of a spouse, to be taken with just as much gravity. A simple interview is nowhere near enough. meeting a basic list of criteria is also not enough. You have to really know your people, and that happens over time.
There may come a time when the shit hits the fan and you just have to take whatever you can get. But right now, while the sun is shining and you have the luxury of selection, use it. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Sat, October 24, 2009 - 4:49 PMI'm trying to be vague on purpose. Concentrate on what would be the most important common skills in an unpredictable future. At this point, we could be in for just about anything. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Sat, October 24, 2009 - 4:54 PMAnd you won't have to take whatever you can get if you think about this stuff now. I certainly don't plan on ever relying, trusting, or taking in any stranger based solely on their particular talent. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Sat, October 24, 2009 - 8:03 PMI'm going to assume you're a level-headed person, aren't too easily offended, or neurotic, or need to be in control of everyone, etc... Given a well adjusted person, first and foremost you'll need to be personally compatible with your prospective group member. You gotta be able to get along. This will entail you are of similar political alignment, probably need similar religious backgrounds. You know, basic compatibility. You also don't want a real go-getter if you are a more laid back type, he/she will be constantly pushing you and getting frustrated that you don't see the same priorities they do on the retreat. Likewise, make sure you don't end up with a lazy ass or you're going to come off looking like the tight-wad drill sargeant. Obviously they gotta be of the survivalist mindset
Secondary to these would be skillsets. These things can be taught and learned easily enough.
It's all really basic and you're probably already annoyed with how condescending it sounds for me to spell it out. There's really no trick to it at all. You just have to remember to think with your head, don't make concessions or cut corners just because you get to know someone. Keep a cool headed perspective and don't be afraid to withdraw from any red or even yellow flags. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Wed, October 28, 2009 - 2:28 PMSo sorry! Re-read my original post and realized that I must have left out an entire sentence, or rather a base query. I just said go. Turns out I got the replies I was seeking, anyway. "A Thou..." , I enjoy your long-winded 2 cents worth. You have given me a lot to think about, too. Yes, I was looking for skillsets. One person can cover many areas of expertise, but most people are not capable of handling it all by themselves. I lean toward the idea of a group dynamic being more powerful than an individual. I just don't want to be stuck with a bunch of idiots. And I don't want to be the only person who knows how to do anything, or I will be doing all the work myself. (I hope that makes sense.)
Sean, yeah, that sure sounded like a horrific situation. But I think we'll be doing mostly doorknob-style dentistry in the future...
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Re: Who do you choose?
Sun, October 25, 2009 - 12:20 AMblacksmith/mechanically inclined, and somebody who can raise animals, that way your not spending time hunting, -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Sun, October 25, 2009 - 7:08 AMblacksmith/mechanically inclined
Yeah, that's a good one. And not easily learned without a mentor... -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Mon, October 26, 2009 - 5:16 PMSkills are learned. Things like gardening and animal husbandry is something you can pick up with experience. It takes years, yes. But eventually, anyone who is around those things will pick it up. So, if that's the 'main skill' of your prospective community-mate, they're only going to be useful for a couple years and then, everyone else is caught up to them. If you were putting up with a lazy or selfish or just plain less-than-perfectly-compatible personality for that gain, you're just going to be left with a shitty neighbor three years down the road. A worthwhile animal husband is going to be a veterinarian with surgical skills and an herbalistic medicinal understanding as it pertains to the animals you use. He's also going to be able to put shoes on your horse, and correct the horse's posture with those shoes.
A blacksmith is better but they gotta know their stuff. ANYONE can work a bellows, heat some metal, and bang it into simple things like hinges and pliers. Maybe they'd need to play around with it for a bit, or be taught for an hour. A really useful blacksmith for a self-sufficient EOTW type of community is going to know how to smelt the iron out of sand by the river, make different alloys, and should smith with a degree of excellence that you won't find at your typical rennaissance reenactor-blacksmith's giftshop.
I would also argue that mechanics are not that hard to find. But then I guess it depends where you live. I've been in neighborhoods where nobody within a mile knows how to change their own oil or check tyre pressure, then I've been other places where everybody's a shadetree mechanic with at least a go-kart, or a chevy malibu rebuild in the backyard or garage. There's not much 'art' to being a mechanic. You turn wrenches, you replace busted parts. A worthwhile EOW mechanic will somewhat blend the line with a blacksmith, and should be able to machine and fabricate and sand cast, and engineer alternatives to parts that might no longer be repairable. I know of an old motorcycle rider who would cast his own pistons from melted down chevy engine parts, in a mould he made from sand on the beach. For cylinders he cut lengths of gas pipeline. THAT is a useful mechanic. The ASE certified mechanic at meineke, not so much. He only knows how to replace an old part with a new part. You could do the same with a little patience and willingness to try.
Maybe I misunderstood your original question. You're looking for skillsets. I don't think skillsets are as important as personality and group compatibility, and a person's aptitude for learning and ethic for hard work. Skills can be added to such a person easily enough to make their initial lack thereof, a moot point. Definitely a bonus IF they have them, but I'd spend my energy looking for the right people, not preocupy myself with skillsets. Just my long-winded two cents. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Tue, October 27, 2009 - 11:08 AMit would be nice to have a medic and a dentist in your crew. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Tue, October 27, 2009 - 7:13 PMAnyone can learn sutures and first aid and basic medicine, in fact most people in your group should be qualified as EMT or equivalent, as part of their basic skill package to have or learn ASAP. The more advanced healing arts take a long time to learn well enough to take one's life into another's hands. Far as medics go, a general surgeon would carry a LOT of weight in the 'skills' department. An herbalist, if they're GOOD like Chuck and not another 'dime-a-dozen' smoke-shop hippy, would also be valuable, I'd take even a moderate herbalist over a very good dentist but I'd trade both for an experienced surgeon.
A dentist is definitely specialized, but not essential. Extractions are easy enough for any jackass with a pair of pliers, and in most cases preventative maintenance can render the need for a dentist completely obsolete. I'd put dentist in the 'nice to have' category.
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Re: Who do you choose?
Wed, October 28, 2009 - 10:06 AMI was on vacation once at a very remote location. One of my crew had a really bad wisdom toothache and we had given him some painkillers. He actually finished all the painkillers we had on hand. He also decided to drink alot of whiskey one night when we ran out of painkillers. The alcohol excacerbated his tooth infection and the swelling reached his throat and almost completeley sealed his airway. It was pretty scary and we made it back to civilisation as fast as we could to get him professional medical help. I was secretly thinking that we might have to perform a tracheotomy. At the hospital, they gave him oxygen and antibiotic shots as well as Dillaudid. We learned a big lesson from that short-lived vacation. He had lockjaw for a week while he was recovering.
friggin' party-pooper!! J/K. I am thankful he didn't die. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Wed, October 28, 2009 - 10:07 AMhell yeah! Chuck sounds like a smart feller -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Thu, October 29, 2009 - 6:18 PMwell, Chuck knows herbalism. REAL herbalism, the kind you can only get, passed down in the family over several generations and taking most of each generation's lifetime to teach and learn.
But as I said, the OTHER 99% or more of so-called 'herbalists' are little more than highschool dropout hippy stoners who read a couple books about herbs and nutrition, and they'll charge you a hundred bucks to prescribe some chamomile tea and a scented candle.
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WE WOULD CHOSE ONLY
Thu, October 29, 2009 - 3:59 PM9 who are 11B preferably E4 and above -
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Re: WE WOULD CHOSE ONLY
Thu, October 29, 2009 - 5:48 PMYou gotta be kidding.
So you get a bunch of guys who know, hopefully, around 30 battle drills, have very little comprehension of COIN or UW, are familiar with a very limited set of NATO weapons, and all have exactly the same skill set.
There's about one type of unit comprised of 11B's that operates without support and has a diverse skill set, and I'm guessing from your posts you don't really have much experience with them, or the military in general.
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Re: WE WOULD CHOSE ONLY
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 9:44 AMuh, oh. here we go..............
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Re: WE WOULD CHOSE ONLY
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 11:11 AMgood point. and nice bio. ;-) -
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Re: WE WOULD CHOSE ONLY
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 5:17 PMI'm pretty sure she was referring to me, and making a tongue in cheek comment about how my bio is empty.
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Re: WE WOULD CHOSE ONLY
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 7:34 AMA general surgeon would be excellent, though without the equipment and support of colleagues, the surgeon wouldn't be much better than a general practice doctor. Medical diagnosis would be a skill worth having, and basic medical procedures, even if the herbalist has a basic knowledge he/she should be able to knock up decent pain killers(opium), anti inflammatories, anti clotting agents and antibiotics all the stuff we're not suppose to make. Problem is if someone needs to be knocked out for surgery you then need an anesthetist, it's not the drugs that kill someone it's the dosage, so the herbalist has to be damn good. Getting passed out on booze is no good either, as you'll bleed too much. So I suggest prevention rather than cure, be careful not to break bones. GP would make a good dentist, depends on how shocking your teeth are as to how difficult they're to remove.
A boiler maker would be great, can fit and turn, engineer, they generally have mechanical basics. Well my closest neighbours son is a boilermaker, so that's sweet.
I have husbandry skills, it is easy to pick up, I have the advantage of living in cattle country, and farmer advice. Native knowledge of the area is invaluable, learn a lot from the aborigines in Australia, when it comes to native fauna, flora and the seasons, unfortunately they have lost a lot of their herbalist craft. I have one mate that knows the rivers systems here back to front.
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Re: WE WOULD CHOSE ONLY
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 4:14 PM<<So you get a bunch of guys who know, hopefully, around 30 battle drills, have very little comprehension of COIN or UW, are familiar with a very limited set of NATO weapons, and all have exactly the same skill set. >>
Yea, Infantry mos guys probably couldn't lace up civilian shoes, let alone be a productive member of paranoidtinfoilhatsville.
What a huge steaming pile of stereotypical dogshit.
Fuckin pog. -
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Re: WE WOULD CHOSE ONLY
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 4:24 PMBack to my regularly scheduled stalking.
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Re: WE WOULD CHOSE ONLY
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 4:46 PMUh, Angie, you have no fucking idea who you're talking to.
Those of us trained at SWCS and working under the auspices of USASOC aren't pogues. I run a three man Tactical Team. I've worked and trained with the 82nd and the 10th Mt - I know light infantry, and I know what I'm talking about. There's nothing stereotypical or dogshit about what I said, and any Infantry E6 or 03 and above would agree with me.
Infantry relies on its support elements to facilitate their mission, and their training in UW is slim to none. And the postapoc workd will be very Unconventional. But maybe I'm just biased, as UW is what I do. -
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Re: WE WOULD CHOSE ONLY
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 6:58 PMAnd I'm fuckin Sophia Loren.
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Re: WE WOULD CHOSE ONLY
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 6:22 PMpog = personnel other than grunt
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Re: Who do you choose?
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 8:03 AMI'd say you've got it pretty well covered for the most part, if you add the metal worker/machinest. I would now just double up on the skills you have covered in case you lose a member.... -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 2:13 PMMacguiver is always on my VIP list. Thats my role model -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 5:03 PM& he's not too hard on the eyes, either :) -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 5:12 PMSheeple can look up to McGuyver. Preppers should be at least on-par if not a cut above. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 1:52 PMHave you even watched Macguiver? I thought he would have a place in the hearts of all Preppers because he can make anything out of nothing. He is bloody handy with anything. He's the chuck norris of survival and improvised shit! If people emulated him, they wouldn't be sheeple. Surely Macguiver is a version of "AThousand Good Intentions" Exept Macguiver didnt get a great deal on alot of land nor is he a latent homosexual. And according to Michelle, He's easy on the eyes. hahahahahahaha =P -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 2:03 PMLOL Women love MacGuiver! he can make you a hammock out of dental floss, start a fire from two glasses of water, and make you a pina colada out of nothing but a coconut. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 2:21 PMWhere are you these days, Richard Dean Anderson? (sigh...)
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Re: Who do you choose?
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 2:13 PMWow sean, resorting to homosexuality as an insult.
Not only is that more proof of how ridiculously lame you are, it warrants 1k to completely shred you apart, as his is wont to do. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 3:47 PMits a joke, I called him this before when I congratulated him on his land. we talk shit to each other. He had a crush on me for awhile. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 4:10 PMWill it make you feel better if he shreds me apart? oh , my!
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Re: Who do you choose?
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 4:19 PMIt's back on.
Just because you learned to enjoy my abuse doesn't mean there's any endearment going on here. I lightened up for a bit because it freaks me out that you bust into the 'latent gay' shit all day long. You probably put on your assless chaps before you log on for another chance to "talk dirty" with A Thousand Good Intentions.
McGuyver isn't that clever. Anyone with enough time to sit around and think about it can figure out how to make a magnifying glass from a flat piece of ice, or... holy shit! he's using a piece of bamboo as a breathing tube! wow what a genius. Oh look now! he's wrapping 'c' cell batteries with cardboard so they'll fit correctly in a 'd' cell flashlight! whoah!
Any country boy can keep his 60's chevy running on bailing wire and parts stolen out of whatever he found in the yard . Blows the socks off McGuyver. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Who do you choose?
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 4:29 PMSean's homosexuality isnt latent, 1k. But his self-loathing is kinda disturbing.
But 1k I disagree with your contempt for MacGyver
macgyver.250free.com/MacGyverisms.htm
he did some pretty creative stuff -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 6:36 PMim not homosexual nor self loathing. I only said that thousad intent is gay because he openly shared his desire to swordfight me while he is in his little cowboyboots . I am serious. he said this. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 6:57 PM<im not homosexual nor self loathing. >
What bullshit. Go seek therapy. You constantly use 'gay' as an insult (which clearly indicates homophobia) and you are constantly projecting homosexual fantasies about. Its creepy. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 10:27 AMI am sorry if I have offended you extremely high standards of politically correct. I have been alot of alot dudes who spout gay barbs all the time. Thiought you'd be familliar with that shit since you're in the army and all. Now your comeback for me speculating that you guys are gay is to call me gay. Yeah thats how it is. I for one think its hillarious. And I gave you that scenario to see you can handle the tables turning on you and see what you would do. Cause you know, anything can happen. Its not a sexual fantasy of mine. I just thought you might relate to it and I created it just for you.
If you find homosexual fantasies in general, creepy..............that makes YOU an homophobe. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 11:34 AMNo sean, try to pay attention.
No one is calling you gay. We're concerned that you're trying to resolve a conflicted sexual identity because you use homosexuality as an insult, yet you constantly indulge in CREEPY homoerotic fantasies that you project on us.
Neither I or 1k were insulting you by suggesting you might be gay. You dont seem to understand the 6th grade nuances here.
Do we need to draw you a diagram? -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 12:37 PMI only mention homosexuality and asscociate you and 1 thou into it because I know it hits a nerve.It produced exactly what I thought it would and you fell into it. It actually fucked with you guys more than I thought it would
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Re: Who do you choose?
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 6:31 PMMacguiver is a television program. why are you turning this all serious like youare getting offended for people likeing him? -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 6:53 PMif you want to bring it back on, then bring it.Maybe I used the latent hosexual joke one too many times with you . I was trying to be cool with you and and you called me a hippy or something, and when when I said you were a latent homosexual, you said I had balls and you seemed to be nice to me. I was merely trying to stay on your good side by insulting you with gay jokes like I thought you liked.
and reaganomics.......I just dont know what your deal is with me. I know you dont like me and you love to respond vigorously to my comments. And when someone gives you a good argument, you just get uglier and insulting its hard to listen to whatever points you're trying to make because mainly you try to insult peoples while you say the same shit over and over with bigger words.......jeez' such a fucking asshole. If I needed an asshole to tell me things, I would have just rather farted.
Seriously -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 7:03 PMMy deal with you is that you prattle on authoritatively about subjects you're entirely ignorant about.
You also constantly harp about yourself in the most annoying and self aggrandizing manner, but you're a loser with a ponytail who pretends he's a ninja. You're not witty, you're not clever, and you're a purveyor of bad information.
You also apparently cant recognize a good argument for the life of you.
Seriously. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 7:08 AMThere's several pots and kettles here, all the same color.
You all have good points to share, but you're devolving into a mud slinging match. And unless you come up with new insults for each other, it gets boring.
Sorry, just my opinion.
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Re: Who do you choose?
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 10:04 AMI dont pretend I am a ninja. I dont know why you guys take my sword picture so seriously and pick on me about it. I was only fucking around posing for my friend near my garage.
I dont have a ponytail.....if you are thinking that the black and white picture that I had up earlier, no thats a Samurai from the indie flick,"hand of Doom". He is Tatsuya Nakadai.
I respect a good argument. Maybe you have some good arguments to present, But no one is going to listen to you if you start jumping on them and insulting them. Now you have ended up with an exchange of insults. No one is gonna be openminded in that mode.
You yourself harp about yourself in an annoying and self aggrandizing manner. I gather that you are proud to be in the army and like to present yourself here as an authority on tons of political and psychological shit. But you get all worked up and verbaly combat people in a non-productive way with the only goal for you is to look smart and popular on this tribe. Perhaps they dont put you into combat much out there wherever you are and you have to go online and get that shit here. Thats why i really dont care if you think I am a loser.
The ladies yesterday were standing up to you guys. I have alot of respect for that and they are new to our tribe. Just the fact that they said what they said and stuck to their guns sure as hell takes them out of the Sheeple catagory.
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Re: Who do you choose?
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 11:36 AMblah blah blah blah blah.
The 'ladies' werent doing any such thing. Mal agreed with the point. Michelle later conceded the point. and is looking into how to refine her ability with that weapon. Only you and Laurel seem to be willfully un-survivable.
good stuff. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 12:18 PMgood stuff how? all that happen was that it turn into an exchange of insults and you once again revealed your ugliness to the world.
<blah blah blah blah blah.>
What happen there ? You sprung a leak?
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Re: Who do you choose?
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 1:07 PMnice use of quotes. and here I gave you the benefit of the doubt when addressing you as gentlemen. ;-)
I said sex was a lousy weapon and that I'm not bringing makeup with me. I never said that I wouldn't do what it takes to survive. All the 'ladies' here know that's probably a given.
I do refuse to use sex as my primary plan to escape the disaster. Its not anywhere near the most useful weapon in my arsenal.
So as you argue it out, please leave me out of it. I'll speak for myself. I haven't been here nearly long enough for you to know what I think, or what my chances of survival are. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 1:58 PMits all good. kinda fun while it lasted -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 4:38 PMSean: "I am one-hundred-percent NOT Gay! I'm really not! ..... why are you lookin at me that way. You think I'm gay. You think I'm gay because I accuse other people of being gay at least four times a day. Well I can't help it if every man I look at seems gay to me. The world is overrun with fags anyhow. Which I am NOT one of. I'm really not. In fact I don't even know why you brought it up. I have a wife and she's FEMALE. I definitely don't fantasize about men if that's what you're thinking. I am so not-gay." -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 5:11 PM..................................................so you really aren't gay?
lighten up, dude. hahah i was only fuckin with ya all this time. Sorry if I went overboard with it. I was only funnin' -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 7:31 PMYou still dont seem to get it. 1k and I dont care if you call us gay all day long.
The problem is that you
1) Seem to be obsessed with discussing homoerotic issues
2) use 'gay' as a pejorative
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Re: Who do you choose?
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 11:54 AMregan
do you want to keep this debate going? You already said that you dont care what I call you, Yet you say you have a problem with me discussing homoerotic issues. I thought that I already explained myself about that. Why do you keep engaging me in this ? You already stated that my projections are getting out of hand. You want more? You are starting to make me feel very special to you your heart for you to be so concerned about my psyche and I dont really know what you're looking for.
Are you secretly cruisin' for a peice of ass? -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 12:20 PMAnd there it goes.
You just don't seem to be able comprehend simple english.
<You already said that you dont care what I call you, Yet you say you have a problem with me discussing homoerotic issues>
No, I never said I have a problem with you discussing homoerotic issues. I have a problem with your hypocrisy, homophobia, and the CREEPINESS of your homoerotic projections. Why is this so hard for you to grasp? You use gay as a pejorative, and then every third post you seem to fantasize about me or 1k in some homoerotic scenario. That's creepy.
What I'm looking for it for you to realize just how lame you are, and to quit being such a weirdo. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 2:09 PM<What I'm looking for it for you to realize just how lame you are, and to quit being such a weirdo. >
Why do you care so much? Do you really think I care at this point if I sound lame or not? You are giving me too much attention and are trying to analyse me too much. You are worse than a Virgo chick on crack. If you think I am homophobic, hypocrytical,and creepy then thats your problem, son. I really dont give two shits on a shingle. You're developing a fatal attraction. Give it a rest already. My stomach hurts from laughing and I just had lunch.
Are you trying to make me change my ways so that we can become friends or something?
If you are , then you are going about it all wrong. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 2:18 PMOh boy.
It doesnt take any analyzing to have you figured out, "son". But the projections continue. You're fantasizing that I'm developing an obsession with you - does that make you feel better about yourself?
When you quit foisting your creepy fantasies about on a survival board, I'll stop addressing them. Its that simple. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 4:21 PMnope what you dont understand is that YOU are the one that keeps coming back for more of the shit I have given you. I already tried to let this shit end awhile ago but yet here you are wanting more and more. It makes me think that you like it and all I have been doing is pacifying your hunger for it. This un-qwenchable thirst of yours. At this point, I have been alleviating my boredome by talking to you because right now most of the discussion in this tribe is dead. It is not a fantasy that you are developing an obsession. You just wont go away.
It is as if you have become a fan, or perhaps "anti-fan" of my writing. And no. This doesn't make me feel better about myself . You can make me feel better by donating to one of my favorite charities, though.
later, son -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 4:48 PMThis has been a rediculous conversation. Have a good weekend. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 5:06 PMSean, here's where people will start to chime in and tell you to shutup. You're so dense to the same obvious point that it's making us cringe. Your counter-argument is weak, it's already been shot down five ways to sunday. Just leave it be and we'll all forget about it till you accuse someone of being gay again. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 7:20 AMIts like talking to a dumb person.
Oh.
wait.
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Re: Who do you choose?
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 8:17 PMWell I already have a team, group, whatever you wana call it. Anyway. 8 people in all. Most of us are couples. And we have jobs. We just looked at what was needed and what we are good at. 8 people is not really enough, we are hoping for ten. But if shtf I don't have to wonder what to do so much. I have a job. (Tactics and security.) It does help -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 4:41 AMOne thing I haven't yet heard anyone mention is the importance of having a strong leader. Someone who can command authority over the entire group will also need the respect of the entire group. A group of followers will fall apart before they can even begin. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 12:08 PMGood point there Michelle. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 4:29 PMI don't have a problem leading people, delegating, teaching, or doing it myself. In person, I'm actually very fair and even-keel with my authority. In a group setting, I'm usually the one who ends up leading unless someone else clearly has authority and expertise in the given situation, and I'm fine with that too. I'll take orders all day long if that's the best role I can take to get the job done. But in day to day, random group of people scenarios, well here's an example: I've been stuck among many other motorists at an impassable road with no way out or around, and everyone else stood around wishing their cellphones had reception in the mountains, freezing their asses off helplessly until I got to it, assessed the situation and started organizing men in three teams to get everyone out. We had to lift a car out of the ditch and put it back on the road because it's back end was blocking the lane, cleared a huge tree, and guided/manhandled every last car over a long, bad patch of ice on a tightly curving downhill one lane road till everyone was safely on their way home. There must have been 30 men and around 100 people stuck on the wrong side of a blocked dead-end mountain road. I couldn't believe nobody in the whole group had any real leadership in their blood. You think people are sheeple, you have no idea. they really WOULD follow each other off a cliff to avoid standing out of the crowd. The most 'survival' minded of them were digging through their glove boxes for neglected hard candy so they had some 'food' for the night. heheheh.... -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 7:23 AM1K - Leadership and decision making is deviant behavior (as in away from the norm) in any given aggregate of people. There's been a lot of research into this, and as humans we are hardwired to act or drool. Helping behavior is the most obvious one of these. 50 ppl can watch a man have a heart attack and not do a thing, but once one person helps, suddenly you've got 40 people trying to do something.
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Re: Who do you choose?
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 4:42 PMRaven-
I'd be interested to know how the responsabilities are partitioned among your group. Who do you have and what do they do.
And I have to add, with much cyincism, that my first thought when someone declares themselves the group 'security' is that they have no real substantive skills to contribute. First off, security is not a substantial aspect of any survivable retreat location. I gotta question the basic common sense in a group that feels they need full-time warriors as opposed to picking a safer location or building a more easily defended retreat. Secondly, ANYONE can shoot a gun. Anyone can assess a location's weak and strong points and put together a defensive plan. Any kid who plays online video games will have FAR more direct experience, and probably a better working knowledge than you, about predicting opponent battle plans and tactics. A full third of boys born in the countryside can track or avoid tracking as well as any army ranger, and shoot better than many military sharpshooters. I'm curious as to what exactly constitutes the position of group tactician and security administrator. What makes you so indespensable and contributive. I'm being a dick and I'm putting you on the defensive. Still, I hope you'll humour me a bit. Enlighten my ignorant abrasion. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 7:26 AMDude, this Raven guy is an Alt. Just look at his picture.
"security and tactics". Good lord.
And Rangers dont track or avoid tracking anymore. Except their scout elements. LRS guys, now those dudes shit in bags they keep on them in order to avoid detection. That's serious business. They dont even shit on the ground then scoop it up - one of their team mates holds the bag while the other dude shits. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 1:22 PMPlease Sean dont comment on the shit in the bag post. If you do ? You might become toilet paper. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 12:30 PMdont you also wipe your asses with your left hand, so that you can eat with your right? I am sure all three of you would hold each other's shit bags. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 12:47 PMIf you eat MRE'S you probably wont shit for a week. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 1:31 PMSean indulges in ignorant rambling again
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Re: Who do you choose?
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 1:31 PMand Sean exposes himself as a racist
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Re: Who do you choose?
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 12:56 PM<bwahahahahahah! >
let me gues.... sound of a gay man farting? -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 1:32 PMand Sean resorts to the homosexual nonsense again.
Dude. Seriously. Seek help. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 4:39 PMenough already. stop dragging me into these things. I stayed quiet for awhile and you guys have to call me out.
The things I say are true about MRE'S c'mon army boy you know how they are right? They are made to be highly digestible so your body doesn't waste much of it and you dont have to shit that much out in the field. And you know im not lying about the left hand ass washing right? That was neither racist nor ignorant. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 7:11 PMYou dragged yourself into it. Michael posted that TWO DAYS ago and you felt the need to insert your blustering and blabbering into the commentary.
The things you say about MREs are not true, actually, as each meal treats different people differently, and often causes diarrhea. If you actually had a clue you'd know this.
And yes, you read a culture card somewhere about left hand ass washing and made a racist statement. First off, I'm not arab. Secondly, ass washing is done in most places outside of America, and if bidets are not common, then using one hand, soap, and water, is. Hands are thoroughly cleaned, and if you spent any time among MIddle Easterners or in South West Asia, you'd know that they use their left hands all the time, including when they eat. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 9:59 AMI have had to eat MRE'S . I didn't shit for a whole week and when I did, it was a very dense little pebble. Everyone I was with was experiencing this as well. Why would the Military issue MRE's to people if it gave them mudbutt? But I will take into consideration that you say that some people cant stomach them well.
Micheal can fuck herself because I wasn't even talking to that asshole in the first place. Creepy ALT user.
I never claimed that you were arab. And you are agreeing with me about people washing the ass with one hand exists. I just didn't think that they ate with the SAME hand, too. You have taught me something new. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 4:53 PMnot everyone's guts are the same, sean. The army provides its soldiers with lowest bidder gear. Every non fobbit I know buys thousands of dollars worth of gear made for soldiers by private industry on their own because generally issued gear is crap. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 5:20 PM...and, don't even get me STARTED on the VA....
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Re: Who do you choose?
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 6:49 AMWell I'm not saying I'm the shit or anything. I just know the most about weapons,tactics, and all that good stuff. By far I'm not the best. I'm the best out of my group. Here's a list of members/jobs
Bravo-head of security
Delta-head of engineering
November-security assistant
Whiskey-engineering assistant
Charlie-Head of inventory
Sierra-inventory assistant
Mike-hunter/medic
Echo-hunting assistant
We have other jobs. and some jobs cover a lot, but here is the basics. we arn't saying we are the shit. We are just making due. We don't have one man as the leader. Whiskey, Delta and I are kind of a counsel.
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Re: Who do you choose?
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 7:04 AMWell here's the reply to your other question. I am a country boy, Tracking, shooting, hand to hand. Hell Ive been doing that sense I was 7.
I'm not a full time warrior. My assistant is a better shot than me. But that's about all he knows. If shtf everybody fights. But who will train them? For people who never considered survival before in there life, Never shoot a gun before, They need help.
Yeah we got a safe place, but security envelops every part of survival. Going out on hunting trips, trading, Where and what we make our shelter out of. Where we store supplies/weapons. Like I said, I'm not god or anything, but I'm the best we got. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 8:18 AMI like the idea of a counsel... Hmmmm. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 6:13 PMRaven, your team is very unbalanced. What I see is a handful of rowdy kids with guns and wrenches, a couple cases of SPAM.
I cannot over-emphasize how much security is NOT a crucial trait for retreat team success. ANYONE can and should be a really good shot. EVERYONE in the team should be well drilled and familiar with group defense, and have a clear understanding of the local tactical situation and scenarios. Dedicated security is a waste of slots on the roster. To say your team is into security is the same thing as saying your team has no plan. It takes so much more than fighting and hunting. That's like saying your team is comprised of proffessional water-drinkers. Those are just the very most basic of basic skills needed. ON TOP of being security profficient, EVERYONE should have other useful, specialized contributions.
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Re: Who do you choose?
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 6:27 PMI'm not much of a fan of 'counsel' as it pertains to small groups of 200 or less. Especially for a group comprised of 20 or less, 'counsel' is just another term for 'no leadership'..... sure... let's ALL be the chief, so nobody gets left out.....
and the difference between that, and NO LEADERSHIP is what?
As we have rehashed previously, Salil and I, people act or drool. Nobody leads, or everybody leads. The whole mentality of 'counsels' in small groups is an extension of that sheeple mentality. there is no initiative there, only a fear of responsability, or a lack of trust to permit authority to rest upon one in your group. In either case, your group has some very basic problems that need to be adressed. You can't have everyone a chief, with no braves to get things done.
There should be ONE group leader, and he should have at least one counselor to assist and as surrogate in his absence but there must be a clear delineation of authority. One is higher than the other. The leader must listen to and consider the needs and opinions of the group, but because the responsability is ultimately his, the decisions must be also. He must be fair and just, and authority and responsabilities should be delegated among the group according to their abilities.
Provided that leader is just, fair, honest, and considerate, this is the best possible heirarchy. The only 'counsel' that should exist, would be in the fact that the leader does sincerely listen to and consider the needs and opinions of the people he leads. But not everybody will always agree. What's best for the group will rarely suit EVERY individual perfectly. And so, there needs to be one in authority, whose orders override the traffic jam of opinions and self-interest conflicts which comprise the group as a whole.
The problems come when an unworthy person gets into this position. If that is a risk or a fear in your group, you need to start looking for a new group. I would never allow anyone into my group who would not accept this level of leadership from me, or whom I could not trust to lead me in like manner. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 9:38 PMI hear what your saying, But the skills have to come from somewhere, I'm basicly a teacher. They don't know a whole lot yet. And your right, It should be the first thing. But I'm not picking a group of hardcore survivalists. I'm picking my friends who have the ability to learn. That's the bottom line. Can't or arn't willing to learn, Then your useless to us. We are all willing to learn, Therefor we are able to survive. I'm not trying to fight with you and I know your just trying to help so if this comes off harsh. Sorry. As far as leadership. I don't know it all, nobody in my group does. but Delta and I are the most experenced, and Whiskey is more of a person to bounce ideas off of. But soon things will change. We may be getting a new person in the group. Stamp. He's a veitnam vet. The real deal not some guy who thinks he's Rambo and lies all the time. He knows about damn near everything. Farming, livestock, guns, working on cars, houses, ect. So he's gona take my place and I'm going to be his assistant. And man am I gona learn. I checked him out and he's not lying. He is the best damn shot Ive seen in my whole life. We got in a clay pigion contest. He got 16 out of 20, I got 14 out of 20. The only diference is that I was using a 12 guage shotgun and he had an AK-47!
One last thing, We arn't a bunch of gun toting, hyper maniacs. We do have guns yeah quite a few, but I hope I never have to use one in a self defense situation. I'm not out to fight anyone. But if it comes to that, Then we will be prepared.
P.S. sorry about the spelling.
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Re: Who do you choose?
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 12:35 PMHats off to you for making due with what you got. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 12:44 PMI bet 1thou would love to lead you and your group. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 9:15 PMThanks man. And he prolly would. lol. But man you should meet stap. He knows more stuff. He's a strong leader and he's a nice guy. You really know he has everyones interests at heart. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 11:40 AMCharisma plays a strong roll in the ability to lead.
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Re: Who do you choose?
Wed, November 11, 2009 - 1:50 AMif i was looking for a group leader, i would most definitely follow you, Semper fi
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Re: Who do you choose?
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 11:04 AMI think consels may be neccessary to larger non military groups but that idea goes out the window in small combat groups. Having been in the military when a commander gives an order you can bet he ain't saying "men take hill Charlie Foxtrot....unless you have something you might think will work better huh doya huh" When peoples lives are on the line isn't the time for debate and maybe's. -
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Re: Who do you choose?
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 11:46 AM< When peoples lives are on the line isn't the time for debate and maybe's. >
interesting viewpoint
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Re: Who do you choose?
Wed, November 11, 2009 - 1:41 AMlike the man said, skills can be learned, compatibility cannot, if the person grates on your nerves or the rest of your groups, eventually youre gonna have trouble, skills are nice to have before hand but the greatest skills are an open mind,a strong back and willingness to learn. find someone everyone gets along with well, a non-whiner that is willing to work, even if they have no real skills they are a plus over some well skilled lazy jerk that thinks the world owes him